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NON PAYMENT OF DEBT - WORLDWIDE!!!

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NON PAYMENT OF DEBT - WORLDWIDE!!! - Page 2 Empty Interesting...

Post  Shelby on Tue May 18, 2010 3:09 pm

Okay Ray, I agree you apparently have the benefits of living in a large modern city, and the benefits of social health care system. You probably have efficiencies in certain things, which I lost when I moved to backasswards 3rd world country.

(btw, I can see a doctor for $3 without insurance where I am, and I hate modern health care and try to avoid it in nearly every instance...for example I have had a problem swelling feet, and am treating it by increasing my exercise to very intense levels)

I read an interesting objection to Obamacare yesterday. Under socialized care, we are supposed to be able to get insurance (care), even if we have a pre-existing condition (imagine one that costs $50,000 a year to treat for life). However, rather than pay say $5000 a year in health insurance premiums for my family, it would be less expensive for me to pay the annual penalty for not carrying health insurance (a few hundred $) and then once someone in my family gets a serious illness, then I can go signup for insurance and under Obamacare I can't be refused. Therefor, I can cheat the system and cheat everyone who is paying for taxes and insurance.

Wasn't Germany a very pleasant and highly artisan place to live before the 1920s? Germany thought they had found nirvana. Within decades they were in hyper-inflation, and then genocide.

Theft never works out forever Ray.

Did you realize that when you shorted GDX the other day, you were stealing? If you don't understand why gambling is entirely unproductive activity, then you would not understand me at all.

I think you don't yet understand that the new world order will at some point be very (as in wailing in pain, think of Hilter's Germany) unpleasant for everyone in it and I mean that in realistic, non-biblical terms. And at some point in biblical terms, more painful than sitting in pit of boiling acid.

My only agenda is to help inform about the choice is between theft and honesty. Because I like to see people smiling and not wailing in pain.

It is fitting that you write about how wonderful London is, right as we are on the cusp of London's sovereign crisis to erupt.

You think I wish ill will on westerners or Chinese? No! I wish they would stop stealing from themselves, so that they won't end up being so unhappy in near future.

I would say at this point Ray, we would be best to stop discussing and sit back and wait for a while to see what happens. Then we can come back here later and we will see who was correct.

Oh and I am not trying to start a mass movement, I am just speaking to gold and silver investors and encouraging them to abandon speculation and go straight to physical. As for mass movements, it is not impossible that I would create another very popular website (millions of users, as I did before) and then give subliminal messages to the masses, to help inform them about honesty versus theft. But fate will decide if that is my role or not. I am not working for that reason specifically. I am working to earn more income and to be a productive member of society. Income can enable me to invest in developing new technologies. Technology is the great generator of freedom and can even front-run the march to new world order for a while. It is great and interesting challenge to try to create technological paradigm shifts, that require no effort at all to spread to the masses. They are adopted virally.

As best as I can tell Ray, you see no drawbacks for yourself for the current trajectory of the new world order. I think this is short-sighted. We will have to wait and see if within your lifetime, I was correct or not. So that is my motivation. I don't want to contribute to failure, by embracing the current system and thinking (incorrectly) that is successful for me.

It is true that the current system is part of the modern world. But it is not true that it is essential for the modern world. I have become pretty well convinced in my research, that we would be 100 times more modern and technological, had the people not adopted socialism.

I am not assuming that you have made no contribution to real production in the world. I don't know enough about you to make that assumption.

====
I have further pointed out why I think Ray does not understand or forsee the failure coming, at the bottom of this very long post, as he and I have continued our debate about China (at an external website):

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-360.htm#2953

Shelby
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Post  R N on Tue May 18, 2010 7:22 pm

Shelby,

You still do not make clear how you propose to 'change the world' (which is the evergreen comment of all the Miss Worlds when they are on stage trying to win hearts and sound sweet and socially concerned).

Every time, you go off on a tangent which makes it hard to follow.

Is it to get everyone buying gold and silver?

Is it to stop people stealing?

Is it to get people living without a government?

It is all vague mushy, and wishy washy.

There is no substance in how it can be achieved without a mass brain transplant preprogrammed with your mental software.

I will tell you how it could be achieved by the Elite in some future era. They could create clones who will be specially reared and programmed from the beginning along with inserts in their heads that will respond to orders.

They could eliminate the mass of population by a special virus (along with a few other methods) In England we destroyed the rabbit population with a disease many years ago.

The Elite could control the population of clones to numbers just to meet their needs - manufacturing what they need, and providing a form of servant slave labour. They would not know any better so will accept life as it comes, and they would have no family structure as now.

This would solve all the Elite's problems. The beaches of the world would not be overcrowded, nor the roads, and there would be no opposition to their way of life.

It is all within the bounds of possibility, but to bring about would require radical change which is way beyond what you or any person outside TPTB to bring about.

My reasoning behind how I view life as I know it, and not yearn for some fantasy land, is simply this. In spite of all the changes, some brought about by human violance, and natural disasters, the world today is better than at any previous time in history for the common man. While I might like to visit a past era in a time machine, I would not want to stay there. It is this what gives me hope for the future.

You mentioned being on a death march. We are all on one from the moment we are born we start dying.

R N

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Post  R N on Tue May 18, 2010 7:56 pm

"....Wasn't Germany a very pleasant and highly artisan place to live before the 1920s? Germany thought they had found nirvana. Within decades they were in hyper-inflation, and then genocide....."

A big NO!
After WW1 ended Gernany was made destitute. It was a terrible place to live. Ordinary Germans observed that the only people living well were Jews. They all had good positions, or businesses, and none appeared to be suffering from the war. In fact they were thriving.

Hyperinflation was the last straw for ordinary Germans and brought so much unrest, it brought Hitler to power in the 1930's. In a camparatively short time BY SPENDING ON BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE - (now why did I cap that?) autobahns modern factories, especially one to build a 'people's car, schools etc. He got the people to work and built a new Germany out of the ashes. He did EVERYTHING to restore Germany's image. And he succeeded.

What followed was a forgone conclusion. It has happened to everyone that goes against TPTB whose wealth power rules our world, and has for centuries.

China has done what Germany did (and is doing) to get on its feat and build a modern land fit for its people. But China will NOT make the mistake of Germany and make war on TPTB, or even make war on anyone.

R N

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Post  Shelby on Tue May 18, 2010 10:36 pm

R N wrote:"...Wasn't Germany a very pleasant and highly artisan place to live before the 1920s? Germany thought they had found nirvana. Within decades they were in hyper-inflation, and then genocide....."

A big NO!
After WW1 ended Gernany was made destitute. It was a terrible place to live. Ordinary Germans observed that the only people living well were Jews...

I mean before WW1. Germany thought they were in a nirvana. They had socialized health care for example.

R N wrote:"...Hyperinflation was the last straw for ordinary Germans and brought so much unrest, it brought Hitler to power in the 1930's. In a camparatively short time BY SPENDING ON BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE - (now why did I cap that?) autobahns modern factories, especially one to build a 'people's car, schools etc. He got the people to work and built a new Germany out of the ashes. He did EVERYTHING to restore Germany's image. And he succeeded.

What followed was a forgone conclusion. It has happened to everyone that goes against TPTB whose wealth power rules our world, and has for centuries.

China has done what Germany did (and is doing) to get on its feat and build a modern land fit for its people. But China will NOT make the mistake of Germany and make war on TPTB, or even make war on anyone.

Hitler was chosen by Rothschild, he was a Rothschild child from a maid. Obama has also been chosen, and is a cousin of Dick Cheney at least.

R N wrote:You still do not make clear how you propose to 'change the world' (which is the evergreen comment of all the Miss Worlds when they are on stage trying to win hearts and sound sweet and socially concerned).

Every time, you go off on a tangent which makes it hard to follow.

Is it to get everyone buying gold and silver?

Is it to stop people stealing?

Is it to get people living without a government?

It is all vague mushy, and wishy washy.

Bible says come out of the world, not try to change it. We are only supposed to make the information available for those few who will see. We are just searching for the few who are destined to survive when all of you perish, as you describe below...

R N wrote:"...There is no substance in how it can be achieved without a mass brain transplant preprogrammed with your mental software.

I will tell you how it could be achieved by the Elite in some future era. They could create clones who will be specially reared and programmed from the beginning along with inserts in their heads that will respond to orders.

They could eliminate the mass of population by a special virus (along with a few other methods) In England we destroyed the rabbit population with a disease many years ago.

The Elite could control the population of clones to numbers just to meet their needs - manufacturing what they need, and providing a form of servant slave labour. They would not know any better so will accept life as it comes, and they would have no family structure as now.

This would solve all the Elite's problems. The beaches of the world would not be overcrowded, nor the roads, and there would be no opposition to their way of life.

It is all within the bounds of possibility, but to bring about would require radical change which is way beyond what you or any person outside TPTB to bring about.

My reasoning behind how I view life as I know it, and not yearn for some fantasy land, is simply this. In spite of all the changes, some brought about by human violance, and natural disasters, the world today is better than at any previous time in history for the common man. While I might like to visit a past era in a time machine, I would not want to stay there. It is this what gives me hope for the future.

Ah you have just describe the hell on earth of the new world order, and you don't even recognize it has a hell. You have described the Pay in Blood system that I figured out was what 666 will be. But you openly embrace it, as predicted by Revelation that those who take the mark, will do it gleefully.

Don't you realize that such a system will eventually come to lobotomize you too? Don't you realize that declining entropy systems are failure driven and must kill themselves? I know you don't realize this, and this is why the bible tells me that "if they didn't listen to Moses, they wouldn't listen to you" (when the rich man in hell asks to send a warning to his sons).

R N wrote:"...You mentioned being on a death march. We are all on one from the moment we are born we start dying.

This indicates me that you are not a chosen one (but I can not judge you, you will judge yourself by your result), because you do not understand that this life is one of seeking the eternal life. This life is all about living forever, but you are apparently resigned to (actually bragging about) your fate in hell during and after this earthly life.

Shelby
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Post  Shelby on Wed May 19, 2010 11:13 am

Shelby wrote:
R N wrote:"...Wasn't Germany a very pleasant and highly artisan place to live before the 1920s? Germany thought they had found nirvana. Within decades they were in hyper-inflation, and then genocide....."

A big NO!
After WW1 ended Gernany was made destitute. It was a terrible place to live. Ordinary Germans observed that the only people living well were Jews...

I mean before WW1. Germany thought they were in a nirvana. They had socialized health care for example.

R N wrote:"...Hyperinflation was the last straw for ordinary Germans and brought so much unrest, it brought Hitler to power in the 1930's...

Hitler was chosen by Rothschild, he was a Rothschild child from a maid. Obama has also been chosen, and is a cousin of Dick Cheney at least....

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/bock051810.html

...Greece will now be doomed to transferring to foreign creditors an amount equal to 8 percent of its GDP in perpetuity ... much more than German reparations to foreign creditors after WWI...

...new book "This Time is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly." They concluded that when sovereign debt exceeds a level of over 80 percent of its GDP, that debt grows ever more rapidly invariably pushing the country into financial default...

...America's debt picture is truly astronomical and, like the situation with Greece, the debt cannot, and never will, be repaid. Indeed, any way you look at it, the consequences for the United States, let alone the many other haunted economies, are grim, dismal - even disastrous...

The writing is on the wall. Can you read it?

Shelby
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Post  R N on Wed May 19, 2010 2:16 pm

"...........Ah you have just describe the hell on earth of the new world order, and you don't even recognize it has a hell. You have described the Pay in Blood system that I figured out was what 666 will be. But you openly embrace it, as predicted by Revelation that those who take the mark, will do it gleefully............."

Learn the difference between something that is related as POSSIBLE. and domething that is PROBABLE. The difference is hardly subtle, or vague.

I could just have easily said, using your genre, or source of prognosis inspiration that God could punish mankind by destroying our world with plague or pestilence, or whatever.

From the bible which you quote so much as you take everything literally, we can see that God is easily angered, and thinks nothing of wiping out places that offend Him - Sodom and Gomorrah for example.

It is a very poor debater who twists meaning, though it is quite obvious to an intelligent person who claims a high IQ., and who wishes to engage in honest discourse.

And, if you mean before WW1, say so. Before ' 1922' covers much ground that disproves without question your argument re Germany.

R N

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Post  R N on Wed May 19, 2010 2:52 pm

I wish to say, without it being taken as patronising, that I believe you are a generally honest guy who means well. Though, at least from my point of view, very much misguided in your views on China, and some of your others.

However, that is my view. On re reading some of the posts I can see we have both allowed ourselves to become too demeaning, and disrespectful of the other. This achieves nothing, and is unpleasant to others who may read as we are on an open access to the internet world.

You say you have some Indian blood, so I say, lets bury the hatchet. If we do challenge, then let it be couched in more acceptably phrased argument. I am prepared to make effort.

I leave it to you.

R N

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NON PAYMENT OF DEBT - WORLDWIDE!!! - Page 2 Empty certain; why a gold standard is inevitable (and evil or usury)

Post  Shelby on Thu May 20, 2010 2:06 am

R N wrote:
Shelby wrote:"...........Ah you have just describe the hell on earth of the new world order, and you don't even recognize it has a hell. You have described the Pay in Blood system that I figured out was what 666 will be. But you openly embrace it, as predicted by Revelation that those who take the mark, will do it gleefully............."

Learn the difference between something that is related as POSSIBLE. and domething that is PROBABLE. The difference is hardly subtle, or vague...

The march to 666 is certain. It is guaranteed by human nature. And studying history and even recent history, one can see it proceeding and accelerating.

However, there will probably be a respite, or improvement in apparent conditions, after this current western debt bubble phase is finished. The astute will be able to recognize that it is part of the march towards 666. I expect it to be a gold backed currency regime (but not circulating gold and not gold for the masses, actually the opposite-- a mopping up of gold from private sector to the banks), with high interest rates and a lot of real growth in the developing world, which will suck the remaining gold from private investors to the elite (banks). Some will proclaim it as the rise of China or other accolades, but the astute will recognize it for what is truely is, which is the usury system sucking the remaining gold from the millionaires. Then at the end of the next big bond bubble when the millionaires are completely devoid of gold, the entire world will go through what it is going through now, but it will be a complete rout of the private sector. This is what I think is described as the time of the anti-christ.

When interest rates go high enough, private investors will want to sell their gold to obtain high interest rates on deposits. When the elite make the currency "good as gold", the private investors will have no incentive to hang on to physical gold. They will deposit it at the bank and purchase interest bearing deposits instead. It is entirely obvious to me that this is the only way the crises can end and it is the logical plan for the elite, as they will then aggregate all the remaining gold (interest rates will be much higher than the mining rate from the ground).

And this reversal of selling of gold to sucking it back in, will not cause their debasement to be revealed as a fraud, as long as they allow the interest rates to stay higher than the inflation rate. Very high interest rates is crushing to society, because it transfers wealth to the bankers at phenomenal compound (exponential) pace. This will suck all the real growth from the developing world to the bankers. They will own all that growth.

R N wrote:I wish to say, without it being taken as patronising, that I believe you are a generally honest guy who means well. Though, at least from my point of view, very much misguided in your views on China, and some of your others.

However, that is my view. On re reading some of the posts I can see we have both allowed ourselves to become too demeaning, and disrespectful of the other. This achieves nothing, and is unpleasant to others who may read as we are on an open access to the internet world.

You say you have some Indian blood, so I say, lets bury the hatchet. If we do challenge, then let it be couched in more acceptably phrased argument. I am prepared to make effort.

I leave it to you.

It is a good idea, and I support your sentiments. Thank you. I would say "God bless", if it won't offend you.

Shelby
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