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What Is Money?

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty APMEX.com realizes that nuismatics are not money

Post  Shelby on Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:08 pm

Suggest you read the prior post on previous page this thread, and the whole page of posts pointed to by the links in that prior post.

Major news is that APMEX.com (one of the largest dealers in USA) will no longer be selling nuismatics! Americans are waking up to the true value of money!

I received this in email:

Subject: APMEX Site-wide Numismatic Closeout Event!
From: "APMEX News" <news@apmex.com>
Date: Fri, October 30, 2009 1:32 am

Dear Shelby,

APMEX will no longer be selling certain types of coins, currency, collectibles and
supplies! This decision has been made to accommodate the growing requests from our
customers for more precious metal and bullion related items. If you are a
collector, you can take advantage of this unprecedented CLOSEOUT EVENT as we
eliminate forever many of our coins, currency, collectibles and numismatic supplies.

Going forward, we will still be buying and selling all Gold, Silver, Platinum &
Palladium Bullion as well as semi-bullion items like Silver Dollars, Pre-1933 Gold,
40% and 90% Silver, and a few other selected items that our customers want. EVERY
other numismatic item will be reduced for immediate liquidation. These items will be
clearly marked throughout the APMEX website with this special icon:

Take advantage of these deep discounts and add to your collection now! We have
millions of dollars worth of numismatic and related items on sale! These
one-of-a-kind items will not be replaced. When they're gone, they are GONE!

...

Shelby
Admin

Posts : 3107
Join date : 2008-10-21

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty An Intriguing Thesis

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:22 am

Hi Shelby,

I have referenced the FOFOA blog in a few posts. I came across this blog around a year ago. I wont attempt a complete summary of the ideas presented there but I would like to try to summarise FOFOA's thesis about gold. It goes to the core of a discussion of "What is money?" Again this is part of my "what comes next" musing.

Sorry for the long post but I feel that it is important to explain why I think FOFOA might be onto something. So, before going into FOFOA's thesis I feel compelled to at least touch on the "geneology" of this blog because:
1. It goes back to 1997; and

2. I have read most of the archived material and the majority of the hints about the motives and plans of the "players" correlate* with the behaviour of gold and many gold market participants since then; and

3. The actions of players (such as the Chinese) that have been gradually revealed since 1997 align with the claims made in the archives; and

4. The people who comment on FOFOA's blog seem to be lucid, well-informed and insightful about many issues that we talk about here (eg. the principle is, if you want good Italian food in a strange town seek out a restaurant where the local Italians eat).

* I realise correlation is not causation.

Geneology:
In the late 1990s someone began posting on the Kitco gold forum under the name Another. The story he outlined concerning gold, oil, the Saudis, euro, Chinese etc was then taken up by someone posting as Friend Of Another (FOA). Both of these people appeared to have high level, insider knowledge of the matters that they spoke on. The blogger, Friend Of FOA (FOFOA), claims not to know either of the earlier Kitco forum contributors personally. He took up the task of spreading the word about what they wrote when they fell silent and to present the emerging evidence to support their claims and predictions and lastly to develop the thesis built on the foundation laid by Another and FOA.

A Few Samples Of The Claims In The Archives (NB going back to 1997):
-Gold would start to rise in earnest after the launch and acceptance in the market of the Euro (and not before).

-The end of the USD's role as a reserve currency was imminent and a foregone conclusion by the major players.

-The 1973 deal with the Saudis to only price oil in USD was, in fact and indirectly, a cheap oil for artifically cheap gold deal. The Chinese "gate crashed" this party in the late 1990s.

-The Euro and gold were developed and/or adopted as the "hammer and anvil" to break the USD hegemony.

The Thinking, Moves and Motives of the Players (FOFOA calls them the "Giants"):
Again, this is just a brief sample, by no means the full content of the archives and FOFOA's analysis and posts. I speculate that these Giants may influence and/or control Governments but they view politicians as pet cobras.

In short, the USA could not be trusted (presumably they meant the administration). The Giants decided that there was no point in attempting to re-instate any type of gold backed currency or circulating gold currency. In relation to the former FDR demonstrated that a Government would shaft the citizens without hesitation and Nixon showed them that the USA would happily shaft other countries, friend and foe alike. Public acceptance of the legal tender laws that came into being from 1909 onwards proved that the public would not stand up to a Government short-circuiting gold's monetary discipline then and it was even less likely now (due to indoctrination in fiat currency as money?).

The Giants started planning for what we are seeing today 30+ years ago and they have been quietly getting into position in gold and setting up the tools to force the desired change to the system for over 15 years. The positions in gold were acquired through subtle means such as Robert Rubin's 0% gold lease rates (under Clinton) to grow the gold carry trade, hedging contracts with mining companies and gold loans (payable in gold) to developers of new mines. (FOFOA seems to think that paper gold via the Comex and ETFs were just part of the price manipulation scheme and a means of diverting most people's attention away from the real action.)

The USD could not endure as the world's reserve currency. No other fiat currency would or should take its place, including the Euro! Bi-metallism is not on the agenda ie. no central role for silver only gold.

(BUT there is a continuing debate on the FOFOA blog about how silver will be impacted. BUT, BUT Another's disdainful view of a renewed role for silver in the next monetary system is disturbingly well supported by Professor Fekete's thoughts on bi-metallism).

The Thesis (FOFOA calls it "Freegold"):
To me, the essence of the thesis is that in the next stage of the evolution of money fiat currency will retain its' role as a medium of exchange/unit of account for transactions but it will lose any pretense that it is a store of value. Gold will occupy the pre-eminent position in the heirarchy of store of value. Gold is being completely DE-monetized not RE-monetized in order to return purely as a store of value not a circulating currency as it did in the past. Gold will be allowed to trade freely in the new system to provide a constant, "real-time" pricing/valuation mechanism for ALL fiat currencies used in trade.

The Giants will not only allow this free trade in gold they will encourage it as it is their opportunity to cash out some of their positions. This event will devastate everyone who holds their "wealth" in fiat currency, most forms of paper, including "paper" gold, and will represent the greatest one-time wealth transfer in history. The upward adjustment in the purchasing power of gold will be astonishing and, most importantly, it will be a one-off permanent revaluation of the value of gold. In other words once this event occurs there will be no second chance to take a position in physical gold at its' current exchange value in fiat currency terms.

FOFOA claims that most of the gold miners will not participate in the windfall. Frankly I don't yet fully understand the reasoning on this aspect of the thesis.

Shelby,

One of the things that intrigues me about this thesis is that it gives most of the villains some inducement to accept the new system. For example politicians and Governments can still gradually screw their citizens over with inflation in fiat currencies but with some external constraints this time. The fractional reserve bankers remain in business (with a diminished role in some areas) provided legal tender laws continue to force local trade and contracts to be settled in local currency. The currency traders are still there dishing out the rewards and punishments on currencies through arbitrage against gold in local markets. Bond trading may start again after the "great die off" as the healthier economies and surviving companies issue debt again.

Even though past savers in developed countries are screwed many of the savers in developing countries are winners. All future savers get encouragement to provide capital and they get a safer place to store their future savings. The blame for the disaster can be sheeted home to past decisions by former Governments and shifted around to suit whatever propaganda line the PTB factions want to run. The world overall, strange as it may sound, might be, in many ways, better off and the PTB factions who pull this off get a payday of epic proportions.

I hope I have done justice to FOFOA's work on this. As always though "the best laid plans of mice and men go oft awry".

Cheers!

Guest
Guest


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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty re: [CRITICALLY IMPORTANT] Gold as store of value, not as legal tender currency

Post  Shelby on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:08 pm

angophera wrote:...
-The end of the USD's role as a reserve currency was imminent and a foregone conclusion by the major players.

-The 1973 deal with the Saudis to only price oil in USD was, in fact and indirectly, a cheap oil for artifically cheap gold deal. The Chinese "gate crashed" this party in the late 1990s.

[...8<...]

The Thinking, Moves and Motives of the Players (FOFOA calls them the "Giants"):

[...8<...]

In short, the USA could not be trusted (presumably they meant the administration). The Giants decided that there was no point in attempting to re-instate any type of gold backed currency or circulating gold currency. In relation to the former FDR demonstrated that a Government would shaft the citizens without hesitation and Nixon showed them that the USA would happily shaft other countries, friend and foe alike. Public acceptance of the legal tender laws that came into being from 1909 onwards proved that the public would not stand up to a Government short-circuiting gold's monetary discipline then and it was even less likely now (due to indoctrination in fiat currency as money?).

The Giants started planning for what we are seeing today 30+ years ago and they have been quietly getting into position in gold and setting up the tools to force the desired change to the system for over 15 years. The positions in gold were acquired through subtle means such as Robert Rubin's 0% gold lease rates (under Clinton) to grow the gold carry trade, hedging contracts with mining companies and gold loans (payable in gold) to developers of new mines. (FOFOA seems to think that paper gold via the Comex and ETFs were just part of the price manipulation scheme and a means of diverting most people's attention away from the real action.)

The USD could not endure as the world's reserve currency. No other fiat currency would or should take its place, including the Euro! Bi-metallism is not on the agenda ie. no central role for silver only gold.

(BUT there is a continuing debate on the FOFOA blog about how silver will be impacted. BUT, BUT Another's disdainful view of a renewed role for silver in the next monetary system is disturbingly well supported by Professor Fekete's thoughts on bi-metallism).

The Thesis (FOFOA calls it "Freegold"):
To me, the essence of the thesis is that in the next stage of the evolution of money fiat currency will retain its' role as a medium of exchange/unit of account for transactions but it will lose any pretense that it is a store of value. Gold will occupy the pre-eminent position in the heirarchy of store of value. Gold is being completely DE-monetized not RE-monetized in order to return purely as a store of value not a circulating currency as it did in the past. Gold will be allowed to trade freely in the new system to provide a constant, "real-time" pricing/valuation mechanism for ALL fiat currencies used in trade.

The Giants will not only allow this free trade in gold they will encourage it as it is their opportunity to cash out some of their positions. This event will devastate everyone who holds their "wealth" in fiat currency,

[...8<...]

Exactly! That is what I was writing about in another long thread in 2008 for example here, and here, and here, and here (read whole page), and here (realize my proposed P2P system was really a store of value exchange system between high net worth entities, not a currency system for individual transactions).

You have articulated it so lucidly. Thank you so much. This may be the most important post ever on this forum.

The key point is that the coming system will freedom for those who want to trade metal in high value granularity, but it will be a jail for those who want to use metals for individual retail transactions, because this period is about the Giants killing the nations. The nations will fight back by taxing the hell out of metals at the retail and border. The nations (politicians and their mass majority welfare flock) will cannibalize their nations in order to try to fight the free market, and by doing so, they hand the power to the Giants and their one-world control system. This is exactly what is predicted in Revelations also.

The one-world control system is driven by the fact that only the large fish can escape the wrath of the nations against the free market.

The Giants are may not be doing this because they want to, they are doing it because they feel they have to, as human nature of the masses (and thus politics and nations) is such that it is the only way they can be on top and instead on bottom of the wrath of the nations. The true evil is being done by the people themselves who desire socialism and usury, etc..

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/technology-f8/theory-of-everthing-t124.htm#2182
Shelby in his Theory of Everything wrote:...Ironically the plutocracy will lose capital because the entire pie shrinks in the end game, but the plutocracy has no choice, because if they didn't satisfy society's capacity for zero knowledge due to the Bell Curve, then some other plutocracy would. Each individual has the choice to come out of this economic cancer...

Essentially the people have rejected God, and replaced it with usury, welfare, all forms of insurance, faith in non-absoluteness of science, etc..

So now you have your answer as to why silver won't be useful to the Giants. There is no way they can pack their net worth into silver, and it can't possibly be re-monetized any more, and thus there is no way for them to capitalize on silver. And those of us hoping to capitalize on silver, have to realize the nations will be going after us (90% income tax in last Great Depression) and silver is bulky. Gold and silver will be attacked by the nations at the income tax avoidance, retail tax reporting, etc level. Everyone will have to pay their taxes in this new socialism (except for the very wealthy, who will have the privilege of using Gold as store of value). However, it is possible that silver market is so small that it will simply be ignored by the nations, and thus maybe it might end up being a loophole for getting past Gold capital controls. In other words, just because Gold doesn't serve the Kings well, it might still end up being the thorn in their side, if silver rises to $100, then you can walk comfortable with about $50,000 in your suitcase or backpack. But you won't be getting past the TSA and new more vicious H1N1 epidemic screeners at the airport! Another problem with silver for the Giants is that there is still like 5Boz of it distributed as jewelry+silverware. So they really can't mop it up effectively. If they starting buying and pushed the price to $1000, then that would still only be $5 trillion which is nothing compared to their $400 trillion estimated net worth (I do not know their liquid net worth). And then they would end up giving a windfall to the common man who has silverware.

As Hommel wrote, the Giants will then dump the Gold at astronomical prices when fiat currency interest rates peak, then they will get it back by loaning the fiat currencies (which will float relative to Gold) at usury. Then the next long wave cycle (low interest rates) will be the end of world (Tribulations), probably about another 30 - 80 years from now.

Who are the Giants? Rothschild, Rockfeller, and the people who are in their coat tails and not being manipulated by R&R. They owned roughly 20% of the world resources in early 1900s, and they are going for maybe 50 - 80% on the gold revaluation.

You are going to probably see mayhem in USA with all the guns, wackos, crack addicts, and right-wing and paramilitaries, etc...

angophera wrote:...FOFOA claims that most of the gold miners will not participate in the windfall. Frankly I don't yet fully understand the reasoning on this aspect of the thesis...

Of course, because the nations will raid them with taxes and carbon regulations, etc..

This period will be about the masses stealing everything from each other. It is called SOCIALISM!!

The one caveat is that the developing countries are still somewhat undeveloped and cash transaction based. Here I can see silver nuggets (forget the coins!) and I can see some opportunities for capitalism. The next long wave cycle will be about spreading usury in developing world to bring it to parity slavery of western socialism. The developing world is ripe with a lot of socialism already. It is only the raw undeveloped people that still give it a little flavor of lack of full govt control. The high priorities of the developing nations has been to modernize (e.g. electricity on every mountain top, to indoctrinate the natives in the non-cash tax system), so they will be on par.

angophera wrote:Shelby,

One of the things that intrigues me about this thesis is that it gives most of the villains some inducement to accept the new system. For example politicians and Governments can still gradually screw their citizens over with inflation in fiat currencies but with some external constraints this time...

The fallacy is that you assume some nations will screw their citizens less worse than others, thus the free float against gold will hammer their currencies.

But what if all the nations compete to devalue their currencies and screw themselves with inflation? That is exactly what is happening now!

For years I have been saying there will be no nation as a safe haven, and I also warned people about Switzerland well before the UBS and IRS fiasco. But no one seems to hear me, because they don't want to deal with the depressing implications.

Look there is only one way to be free-- God. The Giants do not realize that, and that will be their demise at the end also, as Revelations says, the AntiChrist will help the nations defeat the Giants, but then the AntiChrist will give the people 666 instead. You see the people always want to choose a higher earthly power to destroy the evil in existing power, and they never choose God.

If you choose God, you careless what happens and the whole thing becomes noise.

angophera wrote:...The fractional reserve bankers remain in business (with a diminished role in some areas) provided legal tender laws continue to force local trade and contracts to be settled in local currency. The currency traders are still there dishing out the rewards and punishments on currencies through arbitrage against gold in local markets. Bond trading may start again after the "great die off" as the healthier economies and surviving companies issue debt again.

Even though past savers in developed countries are screwed many of the savers in developing countries are winners. All future savers get encouragement to provide capital and they get a safer place to store their future savings. The blame for the disaster can be sheeted home to past decisions by former Governments and shifted around to suit whatever propaganda line the PTB factions want to run. The world overall, strange as it may sound, might be, in many ways, better off and the PTB factions who pull this off get a payday of epic proportions.

Please understand there is not one PTB. It is highly complex. Many of those influencing the nations are ignorant of the overall plan and are being fooled by the Giant-most who are actually accumulating gold. The nations are acting as they will-- the Giant-most are simply interplaying in the free market way that is their destiny. They can't help it that people reject God. If they didn't play their role, some other men would. Someone has to play their role, because the people demand it.

The small savers in Asia are also going to be crushed first by inflation, then by deflation and depression. The savers in West will be crushed first by deflation, then by inflation and depression and capital controls. They will have more opportunities than the savers in west in some respects, but less in other respects. The only real winners will be those who hold large enough quantities of gold and have the network to move it and protect it and hide it from the nations' tax men. The Rothschilds want you to think they are out of the gold business, that is why they sold their role in the London exchange in 2007.

angophera wrote:...I hope I have done justice to FOFOA's work on this. As always though "the best laid plans of mice and men go oft awry".

Cheers!

Hommel wrote about this today:

http://silverstockreport.com/2009/free-market-hindered.html

I had come to similar conclusions. Antal and Price want to force free
market on the people via legal tender-- an oxymoron.

Govt can only re-allocate. That is all it can do. Govt can't create, but can destroy. There are no externalities-- Coase's Theorem (Wikipedia).

I have also privately (and mathematically) debunked Fekete's theory that basis could be used as a trading timing tool. Whether the basis will give an advance warning of paper gold default is also uncertain mathematically (as Fekete admitted recently in his writings, the basis can also be manipulated).

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/western103009.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/field112408.html

Alf Field wrote:Major ONE up from $256 to $1,015 (actually 4 times the $255 low);
Major TWO down from $1015 to $699, say $700 (a decline of 31%);
Major THREE up from $700 to $3,500 (a Fibonacci 5 times the $500 low);
Major FOUR down from $3,500 to $2,500 (a 29% decline);
Major FIVE up from $2,500 to $10,000 (also a 4 fold increase, same as ONE)

[...8<.....]

Why quit writing these reports?

...I do not wish to provide interim levels that may cause people to be encouraged to trade their gold to skim a few extra fiat dollars or other currencies, but lose their gold as a result.

So it is Good Bye, Good Luck and God Bless,

How does a $6,000 to $12,000 gold price sound to you? Do you think your nation will let you have the untaxed??


Last edited by Shelby on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total

Shelby
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Plans of Giants

Post  Shelby on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:02 pm

Listen to what I published on March 3, 2007 (before it all happened):

Herein I will explain how and why I think we are in a similar transistion as we faced in 1995-6, but with some very key differences.

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/03Mar_0742____1995-6_vs_2007-8.mp3 ("gold investors" means the Giants)

Listen all the way to the end (22 mins) as it really comes together at the end. You will see how well I predicted everything that has happened since March 2007.

Btw, the record of my publishing that on March 3, 2007, is here:

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9060#post9060

Shelby
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Paper silver sub-leasing is infinitely recursive-- the banks will not admit it

Post  Shelby on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:35 pm

Something I wrote in email on Sun, May 18, 2008 7:13 pm:

Shelby wrote:
> http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36813#post36813
>
>
ABill;36793 wrote:...If there is really a higher probability of physical
> default the silver price would already be much higher today...
>
> ...banks...get in trouble because of exposure with silver accounts
> they...buying...physical silver...
>
> ...UBS...silver business is peanuts compared with the total business...
>
> ...private banks...lease silver...used to back up silver accounts...I
> highly doubt that there is such a practice in Switzerland...
>
> ...silver leasing rate...so low, if there is a shortage of silver...
>
> Why are TBonds are paying negative real interest, yet there are always
> more and more people who want them? Because no one thinks there is an
> alternative to paper money-- they choose between equities or bonds. The
> entire world forgot that silver & gold are money.
>
> Silver lease rates are low because no one wants physical silver, and paper
> leases have an infinite supply-- just like TBonds have an infinite supply.
> As long as no one wants physical silver, then the banks can lease,
> sub-lease, sub-sub-lease, sub-sub-sub-sub-lease,
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-
> sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-lease, etc.. the same physical
> silver.
>
> When 0.0001% of the world's paper net worth remembers that silver is
> money, then a massive domino default of nearly infinite recursive paper
> silver sub-leases will unwind.
>
> I told you before, that bank's motivation is they will cease to exist when
> people no longer want fractional reserve banking money-- i.e. with silver
> and gold money, UBS's entire business model will disappear.
>
> It is going to be financial nuclear bomb.
>
> Now buy physical silver and stop farting around! Or lose everything, as
> 99.9% of the people in world will soon.

Shelby
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Here is the key point of life you may be missing

Post  Shelby on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:50 pm

The point of this is that physical money can't win. Symbols and ideas move at speed of light, and thus they will win for the masses. The physical stuff has to move closer to the center where movement speed will not slow down the masses.


Something I wrote in email on Sat, April 26, 2008 3:13 am:



You may be too focused on the dogma of the ruler:

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34851#post34851

Dogma walks, action talks when it comes to masses. Look at the bigger
picture. Gambling (someone gets hurt) is in everything we can do in this
physical world, including buying physical silver.

The bigger picture is paradigm shifts in the acceleration of disorder
(maximizing interactions, maximizing mass dispersal, 0 mass, 0 energy is
direction towards God).

You are mired in money. Money is not the big enchilada.





================================
Let me expound on prior post.

Think about what humans do every day. It is basically a matter of
occupying their mind, emotions, and time. They usually do things that
require the use of physical energy. They have to move their body around,
do physical things.

The world bankers can easily control us because we need physical energy to
move around. Whereas humans just want to be free to use their mind,
emotions, and time freely. Humans even go into debt, because they are
trying to exponentially increase the rate at which they interact. This is
all natural and in harmony with the direction towards God. Even Bible
predicts this, saying knowledge and travel will increase.

But now imagine the network. We can go every where in the world from our
chair and easily occupy a whole day, a week or years.

The network reduces the need for centralized energy, but even more so if
the network itself is not centralized.

Physical real money (e.g. gold & silver) are important for measuring
integrity, but they are less important than order-of-magnitude efficiency
paradigm shifts (by definition this means decentralization, more disorder,
more knowledge) which can actually decrease the power of those who seek
centralized power by preying on the physical needs of people. In other
words, instead of trying to tell people to give up their physical sins,
and dogma about using a good ruler, just go direct to enabling them to!

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34850#post34850

I think dash was correct about that, but I think it is most efficiently
accomplished by replacing the physical preoccupations, rather than trying
to "make something free, which is not free", as dash proposed we could
make energy and physical production free (or much cheaper). Rather we can
just replace the waste of energy (order) and production (more order) that
we do not need, by enabling faster movement of knowledge on the network.

You see the problem is that Satan has succeeded in getting people to
replace interaction proliferation, with proliferation of accumulation of
material junk.

We need paradigms that enable people to move faster on interactions.

This is why the MySpace is most popular site, and why it is the battle
ground of the cabal now...

...ditto Wikipedia...




=================================
dash,

This is all coming together for me now, I can say your wisdom is that we
must accelerate the rate at which interaction occurs (concurs with my
theory of disorder == knowledge == 0 mass == maximum actors interacting).
And then I remember your concept that we can interact much faster if we
are not burdened by physical needs, i.e. your virtual reality interaction
example. I think you are spot on.

The new energy paradigm is the network. It allows us to move at
lightspeed with very little energy used. Those who can break down the
barriers which are preventing the more full exploitation of the network,
could set off paradigm shifts that affect all 7 billion people on earth in
a rapid timeframe.

Remember energy is the dispersal of mass, i.e. the increase of disorder
and knowledge. So we need a new paradigm for energy, where energy is not
focused on the physical friction, but rather of eliminating the friction
itself!

I think your mistake is to want to address the physical needs of people
(your love of material, such a mass production via physical robots). I
think it is much more efficient to just lop off those physical needs, i.e.
connect our minds directly to the network (as you alluded in your virtual
reality example). Heck the network is already doing that to us (our
bodies atrophy as we sit at computer continuously).

We need to break down the centralized chains on the network. As you have
alluded, the new paradigm is:

***P2P***

The key imo is enabling P2P to work in an open way where is can diversify
semantically without centralized control:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/bloom042508.html



Here is the kicker. If we remove the dependence on centralized energy,
we castrate the cabal.


Continued here...

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Energy

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:09 am

Hi Shelby,

You wrote here:
"Here is the kicker. If we remove the dependence on centralized energy,
we castrate the cabal."

This post is just a place marker. I plan to do a series of posts under Technology rather than here. I have been researching the "distributed energy" path (and related topics) for many years. Much longer than I have spent on economics and money etc.

The sort of questions I want to pose and write about includes:
Q. Is cheap energy storage the bridging technology from a networked to a distributed energy model? Hint: it may be much closer than we thought.

Q. Is the concept of "solar panels on the roof" distracting us from the real issue of "turning your home into an energy provider"?

If you think this will be worthwhile please let me know.

PS I am working on another post for What Is Money? entitled "Is The Euro A Proof Of Concept?"

PPS LOVE your latest thinking on the P2P concept(s). I am not a tech (but I have been involved in this area in past business ventures) so forgive a potentially dumb question: Q. Where does the mobile phone fit into this (if at all)?

Cheers!

Guest
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Is The Euro A Proof Of Concept?

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:25 am

Hi to All,

This post picks up on my earlier post "An Intriguing Thesis" and subsequent posts from other forum dwellers.

I want to rehearse an argument: "the design and rollout of the Euro is the proof of concept (POC)" for a key element of the new monetary sytem that FOFOA believes is coming ie. fiat currency for unit of account and/or medium of exchange and de-monetized gold as the ultimate store of value with no pre-eminent reserve currency.

Self evidently there are three key aspects to this project. In order to make this scheme work you need a store of value that is/will be accepted around the world. You also need a fiat currency that provides the new template for the others. At the same time the selected or designed fiat currency has to have other attributes eg. it cannot accidently become a new global reserve currency. More on this below.

In relation to the store of value role I think anyone who has studied economic history, the hard money vs fiat argument and read the works of monetary scientists such as Professor Fekete would be able to make the case that:

Gold is the logical candidate for the role of top tier in the store of value hierarchy in this next evolution of the monetary system.

You can knock every other candidate out by a process of elimination eg. why not oil instead? - nope - it's consumed, not fully fungible, too bulky, you cannot hide it from people who are prepared to go to war over it, declining marginal utility etc.

Also this project is an investment by the PTB factions involved. If they amass a mountain of gold and fail to achieve the larger objectives THIS time around, so what! They go to Plan B, say, contrive a new/different crisis that necessitates the purchase of most of their gold by Governments around the world (at a fat profit). The gold can then sit there ready to be extracted again if/when they want to attempt to implement Plan A in the future.

Lastly you DO NOT need to convince the MAJORITY of the public of gold's suitability to fill this new role unlike a circulating currency. You only need to convince the key decision makers, the most influential institutions and politicians and a fraction of the populace.

My question is:
Q. Could the PTB commit to this refinement of the fiat currency regime without a POC?

My answer is No, too risky. The PTB's power, control mechanisms and ability to extract wealth is totally dependant on control of money. Next question:

Q. Could any existing currency have been used as an effective POC?
I don't think so. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

As mentioned previously FOFOA and predecessors appear to be adamant that certain parameters of the new regime are already decided. These include not replacing the USD as a world reserve currency with another fiat reserve currency. This makes sense to me. The 1971 bankruptcy (let's call a spade a spade) default perpetrated by Nixon damaged the interests of other players and the need to issue and recycle USD into debt has proven to be a deadly narcotic for the US economy. The history lesson is that any fiat currency that simply replaced the USD in this role would suffer the same fate eventually.

Obviously there are design parameters for the POC fiat currency dictated by the aims and objectives of this project and the overarching priorities of the PTB sponsors. I think the overarching priorities can be dealt with in short order. Realistically the list should include:

-Fallback positions along the way and an exit strategy if it looks like blowing up.

-Maintained or increased power and control.

-Increased wealth and increased opportunities to increase wealth increasingly (damn the exponential function and full steam ahead).

-Safety and security.

-NO risk of substantial, much less total, loss of "capital" (in its many guises).

Perhaps this project is but one aspect of an even more ambitious worldwide project ie. centralised control of banking (BIS, IMF, World Bank et al?) a reliable mechanism to over-ride national sovereignty (a work in progress? European Union? Copenhagen Treaty?), a global taxation system (Carbon Trading?) and control of international trade rules (WTO?).

Frankly I don't have an answer to the question posed in the previous paragraph but I think we can demonstrate that the Euro as a POC does not preclude any of the above. (BTW I think you can make a solid case that the USD continuing in its present role WOULD prevent a global project like this from succeeding.)

Fashioning An Alternative To The USD As World Reserve Currency
Let me say something contentious. The USD has NOT been a true fiat currency during the past 30+ years. Since 1973 it has been "redeemable" in oil and remains at present "redeemable" for a host of other essential and highly prized "real things". It is the way that the USA has managed and excercised its "exhorbitant privilege" (Charles De Gaulle) that has made the USD unsafe, too weak and ultimately unsupportable in this role.

Under the "fiat for transactions" and "gold as store of value" thesis the USD has to lose its role as reserve currency and the store of value role has to migrate somewhere else. In thinking about how to address this process I offer the analogy of a high pressure vessel. Sudden release of the pressure is dangerous. To puncture the vessel in a VACUUM would be catastrophic.

I suggest that when it was time for the Pound Sterling to surrender its currency hegemony there was no dangerous vacuum around it. The USA and the USD was ready, willing and able to expand into the space that was gradually vacated by the pound. However when this project began the USD hegemony was already under growing pressure but the USD was in a "vacuum".

I would argue that the Euro is designed to point the way forward for other fiat currencies and in co-operation with gold to fill the vacuum surrounding the USD.

Design Parameters of the New Fiat Currency POC
In many instances the reasons for including a particular item on this list go beyond the brief explanation given here. I accept that you could argue about what should or should not be on the list.

1. The POC currency cannot be allowed to become a new dominant world reserve currency.

I would argue that the Euro can never be the dominant reserve or trading currency or even part of a long-term reserve because it is not even an IOU by a sovereign nation and no essential goods are traded solely in Euros globally.

2. At least one fiat currency has to serve as a template for the rest in the new system.

The Euro is used on a large enough scale to be a credible model for this new type of fiat currency. It is purpose built for transactions in the role of a unit of account/medium of exchange without any long term "store of value" characteristics.

3. The POC currency cannot prevent other fiat currencies from circulating after being stripped of their store of value pretense.

This is a requirement to secure the "buy-in' to the new system by key stakeholders such as regional politicians.

4. It has to gain broad acceptance in this newly redefined role.

By the time any significant segment of the public realises the change has been implemented the POC should be a fait accompli.

5. Fractional reserve banking must be able to continue to operate based on this new type of fiat.

In part legal tender laws take care of this issue. Currency swaps and deals of that nature take care of the trade issues. (BUT fractional reserve gold banking must end if it is, in fact, happening now).

6. Control of the fiat currency used in the POC must be outside the control of any one Government. (Preferably under the autonomous control of a Central Bank such as the ECB).

Lest the politicians f@#k up the whole plan (like everything else they touch).

Obviously my argument is that the Euro satisfies all of the POC design parameters. I would further argue that it has built-in features that meet other concerns of the PTB. Let me put forward just one example.

"Fallback positions along the way and an exit strategy if it looks like blowing up."

From time to time there is talk of one or more of the EU countries jumping ship. One of the print articles I read talked about Germans hoarding German issued Euros apparently they can be identified by their serial numbers. I am not attempting to open up a discussion about the viability or stability of the EU. My point is it would appear that Germany can return to a national currency if they choose to. In other words they have a fallback and/or exit strategy!

There are other examples but this has already been a long post.

Cheers!

Guest
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Railroads (capitalists) took us off the gold standard

Post  Shelby on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:13 am

The capitalists relied on theft and deceit to make it to the top, of which Rockfeller and JP Morgan/Chase were the winners in USA:

http://www.kitco.com/ind/katz/nov022009.html

...The second compromise of hard money occurred during the Civil War. Lincoln was afraid that financing the war with a tax increase would make the war unpopular in the North. So he printed money to pay war expenses. This doubled the U.S. money supply between 1861 and 1865. The railroads were enabled to pay their debts (which had been contracted in gold) in paper money (greenbacks). For example, a $1,000 railroad bond, which had cost its owner 50 oz. of gold in 1860, could be paid off in 1865 for $1,000 in greenbacks, which were worth 25 oz. of gold. They borrowed 50 oz. and paid back 25 oz. It was stealing pure and simple, and the American railroads loved it. They tried to persuade the country to remain off the gold standard after the end of the war...

angophera, I will try to reply to your posts later.

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Regenerating dinasour birds could castrate the banksters

Post  Shelby on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:03 pm

angophera wrote:...I have been researching the "distributed energy" path (and related topics) for many years...

Q. Is cheap energy storage the bridging technology from a networked to a distributed energy model? Hint: it may be much closer than we thought.

All fuels are energy storage, the relevant distinction is ease of transport or interface to intended use of the energy. Anything would be a bridge if it can enable access to fuels at low economy-of-scale capital investment. This is precisely why PTB want to control food, because it is the fuel for humans that cultivates in any backyard. The higher-order fuels do not yet, but imagine you could genetically engineer and train a very large bird to transport you!!! Then you need only feed it, and let it reproduce. Do you see how dangerous technology is to the PTB?

angophera wrote:...Q. Is the concept of "solar panels on the roof" distracting us from the real issue of "turning your home into an energy provider"?

If you think this will be worthwhile please let me know...

I am skeptical but interested, please move it to Energy thread in Technology.

angophera wrote:...P2P concept(s)... Q. Where does the mobile phone fit into this (if at all)?

The WiFiMAX cell phone could change the world, if the govts don't make the bands for license only, because anyone could set up a Tx/Rx node. For as long as the govts control the sprectrum, then cell phone impacts P2P only as a more mobile, less powerful, less bandwidth PC.

Move this discussion to Technology threads:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/technology-f8/energy-t119.htm#2209

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty re: Is The Euro A Proof Of Concept?

Post  Shelby on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:33 pm

Brilliant:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-15.htm#2198
(everyone should read the post at link above! Very insightful!)


I had many thoughts, which I am not ready to write down.

But you have just explained to me how to potentially beat their plans.

1. Sell digital certificates on the internet. Do NOT offer to redeem them. Do NOT suggest they are backed by anything.

2. Create a separate entity that offers to buy these certificates in gold and the fiat price of gold.

Jump to summary at end of this post.

Afaik, the money laundering laws of the nations can not deal with this, but the tax laws can because #1 and #2 corporations are a "controlled group". But if you put them in 2 different countries, and you are not a US citizen (because IRS taxes US citizens in any country, or if US citizen and never take any distributed profits), then tax has no jurisdiction.

But the big problem is that #1 is making a profit and a VAT transaction, on which it will have to pay taxes to the nation(s). Now you understand why the VAT is so important, because in theory the profit could be eliminated, by buying the certificates from the #2 entity. Or make a #3 entity that is in a tax haven jurisdiction, for example a non-USA citizen that resides permanently on a boat in international waters.

There is a way to hide the flow of money from #1 to #2 (even if through an intermediary #3 for tax reasons). Say you have high net worth individuals who want hold gold long-term, so they buy sell gold to #1 for cash and buy certificates from #2. #1 does not offer to redeem certificates, but instead it makes these certificates into corporate shares!!!

So very easy now:

#1 sells stock certificates to raise capital, which it then uses to buy gold. Tax problem solved. These certificates are always priced in price of gold, i.e. 1 certificate = 1 gold gram. Another company can do similarly for silver.

Now you do not need any #2 per se, these certificates can be bought or sold at eBay or any one who wants to buy and sell them. I believe this is entirely legal. There is no money laundering law or IRS rule that deals with selling stock certificates. There may be an SEC rule, but I bet it is possible to find a jurisdication that allows a company to sell it's shares on the open market. Actually I think it is okay in USA also, maybe just have to file some SEC form.

Okay so we know PTB will try to find a way to shut it down. If necessary, they will murder the operators of the businesses.

But the only attack point is a public corporation, where the assets of the corp do not belong to a person, but to the stockholders. So PTB can only attack in 2 ways:

a) Steal the gold literally with a heist.
b) Enact some national law about holding companies and precious metals (maybe there is already a law?).

As for redeeming the gold, periodically the corporation could buyback it's shares, payable in gold. Then the problem is the capital gains, if the IRS rules the tax is on the value of the gold in fiat. But remember that link I provided which shows that the Supreme Court ruled that contracts in gold are valued in gold:

http://www.kitco.com/ind/katz/nov022009.html

So then we do not need to have only one #1, we could form numerous corporations, and periodically these could buyback and terminate.

Now here is the kicker! The gold need never leave the stockholders' possession!! The corporation could have a contract with the stockholder to make them custodian of the their portion of the gold, that upon sale of the stock certificate, the equivalent gold must first be returned to the corporation's vault, else the contract must be signed by the buyer of the certificate. If the stockholder doesn't have the gold, he can't sell his certificates. So the certificates can be issued very easily with one click of mouse on internet. No transfer is needed until the certificates are sold. Everybody can hold their own gold, except the portion they want to be e-liquid. I was very close to this design with my P2P posts before, I was just missing the ability to bring into legality with the stock certificates concept.

Realize also that if the stockholder wants to, he can claim the gold was stolen, then his stockcertificates are worthless. No one losses! The corporation writes down the asset. This renders the IRS impotent! Brilliant!

How can the nations or the PTB stop this? The laws of corporations would have to change IN EVERY COUNTRY.

The benefit is our gold becomes liquid, because the certificates can become electronic and paper money.

========
ADD: the hitch in the USA at least, is that all public stock offerings have to be approved by the SEC and by each state where the securities will be sold:

http://thismatter.com/money/stocks/selling-new-securities.htm

But I have a solution for this, let each person create a separate sole proprietorship company for each grain of their gold and/or silver, and issue a digital certification that company was input in our database, with a click of a mouse. There is absolutely no law against this. We will not and can not put any limitation on what those companies can do.

#1 offers to be a registration agent for transfer of ownership of these companies, and the assets must be disclosed to us and we can disclose to the recipient. Let one stipulation of escrow contract be that the recipient has to click a button (or otherwise securely notify) stating they received all the assets of the company, or the assets must be transferred to #1. Now I need to search if there is any limiting law about registration agents or storage companies. I know there is something about precious metals and escrow in IRS rules on barter, but afaics, the escrow would NOT be a barter exchange:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=187920,00.html

IRS.gov wrote:Bartering is the trading of one product or service for another.

But the agent #1, I described is not escrowing any trade of exchange of one thing for another. It is only acknowledging the transfer, and optionally also offering to store the assets for the recipient. Conclusion: the IRS has no jurisdiction! IRS has limited jurisdiction over storage (safety deposit box) when they file notice of levy or if the owner of the box contents dies.

I am reviewing all the research I did on this in past:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/precious-metals-f6/how-will-we-physically-trade-gold-silver-at-5000-500-t61-90.htm#824

The business:

* Provides money transfer services in any amount.

...

(d) Definitions.— For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) Money transmitting business.— The term “money transmitting business” means any business other than the United States Postal Service which—
(A) provides check cashing, currency exchange, or money transmitting or remittance services, or issues or redeems money orders, travelers’ checks, and other similar instruments or any other person who engages as a business in the transmission of funds, including any person who engages as a business in an informal money transfer system or any network of people who engage as a business in facilitating the transfer of money domestically or internationally outside of the conventional financial institutions system;; [1]

...

(b) MONEY TRANSMITTING BUSINESS.—Section 5330(d)(1)(A) of
title 31, United States Code, is amended by inserting before the
semicolon the following: ‘‘or any other person who engages as a
business in the transmission of funds, including any person who
engages as a business in an informal money transfer system or
any network of people who engage as a business in facilitating
the transfer of money domestically or internationally outside of
the conventional financial institutions system;’’

When #1 is acting only as a registration agent, then it can't possibly be an agent of transfer (except for the transfer of the certification, which is not the assets of the company, thus should have no value other than it provides a standard mechanism for liquidity). I now see clearly why PTB needed 9/11/2001, it was because they needed to regulate percisely against the transfer of money.

If #1 acts as a storage entity for the assets of the company (gold or silver) and thus facilitates the transfer of them, then it can be argued that those assets are "money".

But being regulated as money service business is not really a big deal. You just need to prove that you have obtained sufficient identification from the sender and recipient. In fact, you will need to obtain this any way, so that you do not give someone's physical gold to the wrong person! So really the anti-money laundering laws are of no hindrance whatsoever!

==================
SUMMARY
==================


  • If you have gold and/or silver, and you want to instantly obtain digital certificates that you can trade, you simply click the mouse at website of #1. I no longer see the benefit to add the complication of making these grain-wise sole proprietorship's, unless there is some gold-banking specific regulations that would apply and could be avoided by encapsulating the metals as assets of a company and trading the companies.
  • You can trade these as you want, but #1 will note on the certificate whether it has received gold on storage backing these certificates.
  • If you store metal with #1, then you must provide identification (so your gold will be returned to you only!), which also fulfills the anti-money laundering laws. The benefit is that when you trade the certificates for these, the recipient won't have to physically get the metal from you.
  • #1 will record change of ownership of certificates when it is securely notified to do so by both former owner and recipient. If the metal is on storage at #1, then recipient must have been AML-compliantly identified (which makes it sure only he/she can get the metal).
  • The benefit of creating certificates for which the metal is not stored at #1, is that some people/merchants might accept them any way, and give you say 30 days or 90 days to complete your promise. It is like a Real Bill, in that it lets the financial system move faster (liquidity) without having to move the physical metal in small increments. For example, I could go spend say $1000 of my gold in 1 month, then send the metal off to #1 after I had spent it! Which means I do not care if #1 loses it! Merchants are accepting credit cards all the time that have chargebacks. You have in theory provided enough identity to #1 before you go spending these, that you won't want to get yourself in trouble with the law. The benefit is that interest rates get set privately not by a central bank.
  • The mistake of http://GoldMoney.com, is they try to restrict to 100% repudiation, instead of letting the free market of participants decide their own terms. Thus their funding and account creation is too big of barrier to popularity. Also GoldMoney.com only stores the metal in a few distant locations, and #1 could have numerous storage locations. I think GoldMoney is a red-herring planted by PTB. Turk worked in banking.
  • I have an efficient idea of how to do AML id, simply let someone get in front of their webcam for a minute and hold up their drivers license and record this. How can govt say they don't have id when they have video of someone when even Western Union offices do not require more? Can also offer the alternative option of Equifax credit match check (as GoldMoney.com does). Can also offer the option of letter of reference from your financial institution (bank). With video id, it becomes very easy to match up accounts that used the system to do fraud and be on the watchout for them in future-- no need for 666 id of universal tax id number!
  • The final complication is the fungibility and purity of different forms of the metals. Purity is just fraud, so it can be handled as per above, except that the fraud might not be noticed by #1 storage personel, then it could cause a public confidence problem. So assaying on incoming metal needs to be very sure. Fungibility is a problem with no real perfect solution. Since this metal won't be trading hands (the certificates will), I think 0.999 gold and silver grains (shot) is best. It is the hardest to hide fraud (other than maybe very thin 0.999 coins), it is the most divisible, easiest to assay (random grains), and it has the lowest premium. And there is no problem with accepting other forms, because #1 can trade this for grains at profit!

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Plan B of the Giants?

Post  Shelby on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:23 am

My hometown Saints are #1 team in NFL this year. I know the world is upside down now, as the Saints have been losers for decades. I see Lance Moore is one of the star players and he has same name, looks and probably size of a little one in my genetic fork, if ya know what I mean. Any way, there was an email exchange with a grandparent in my family:

Shelby wrote:That works well most of the time, but every 80 - 300 years or so, something nasty comes round, where one wishes he/she were dead, because one can't eat (have you tried it? I hate the feeling, especially if it drags out day after day after miserable months). But one just can't take his/her own life, so one learns about the misery of Dark ages, with plagues and massive hunger.

The plan of the Giants is really something. They are going to cooperate with allowing the Americans to push themselves right up to the edge if they can, to maximize the pain.

Then again, I suppose there is some hope that the world will suck through it together and share and share alike, so that the descent into F.U.B.A.R. is gradual enough (like slowly cooking a frog without a top on the pot). That is what the Giants want too. They hope they don't have to resort to plan B-- the microwave version (i.e. WW3). They will not be denied, if they feel they are losing control, they have their fingers on the nukes.

We will see...maybe still a couple of years out...

I am trying to do something about it.

P.S. If you are good at eating snakes and other swamp life, you can disappear into swamp when time comes, but I see most could not do that during the Katrina dry run. And you have to get deep in the swamp with the alligators, lest you will be disarmed and escorted to safe "holding" area (with your pets of course, thanks to Shannon Moore's efforts).

> Or perhaps in New Orleans they don't give a crap. Having been knocked to
> hell and back and knowing it will happen again, they stick with:
> While you're still alive, remember life's a party. Laizze bon temps
> roule, cher!
>
>
> Shelby Moore wrote:
>> At the Coliseum watching gladiators while Rome is burning. The analogy
>> is
>> very literal and real. People have no idea what is about to hit them.
>>
>>
>>>from my friend Adrienne in NOLA:
>>>
>>>
>>>It was a white knuckle game right down to the end.
>>>If they had lost we would be having a jazz funeral today with lots of
>>>mourning. Only two teams in the Country are unbeaten. Us and Peyton
>>>Manning's Indianapolis Colts.
>>>
>>>It's fun to see the City go nuts. The Quarter was crowded on Sunday.
>>>It's been beautiful weather.

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty re: Is The Euro A Proof Of Concept?

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:05 am

Prior discussion:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-15.htm#2210

After further thought, not only is it very clear that the Euro is a test model for purely transactional-transnational currency that can float with no implied backing (no gold reserves whatsoever), it is also clear that it is impossible to use for anything, an alternative (precious metals backed) currency that doesn't scale well, even though I did show at link above that it is technically possible to create a sparse scale currency within the law. The reason is a sparse adoption is useless as currency, because most of the things we pay for would still require us to convert to fiat. Sparse adoption of precious metals as a store of value (but not as a currency) is already accelerating, but this doesn't help while it is sparse. There have been some success with creating online currencies for online games (to buy game extras and some players in China work to earn these in the game then sell these to people who rather pay than play to earn them), which have been promptly made inconvertible to Yuan fiat in China.

So as this plays out, what are the risks of failure for the Giants, of the plan for supra-national, purely transactional (no backing) currencies?

I can see that food inflation is running probably 20 - 30% a year here in Mindanao. I suspect the reason is because the farmers get paid only a small % of the end retail price and much of the cost is the diesel to bring it to market. Food prices did moderate a bit when oil price got smashed in 2008, but the prices are back to all new highs by now. The official figures lie perhaps because if they only look at govt subsidized rice and gate prices at farms (I am not sure how they are calculating their lies, but these tables do not reflect reality):

http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/2009/cp090912r.htm
http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/datacpi.html

So we know that as long as the currencies float, then the national govts are going to abuse them, which is going to feed through to massive inflation in basic goods like food and energy (also because these are underpriced for any kind of sustainable growth that is propped up with more fiat debasement and more debt mis-allocation). Even if the problemmatic levels of debasement are predominantly in west (which is not true in all cases), these are irregardless, cascading as inflation in developing world, due to dollar pegs and in pricing of oil in dollars. So all over the world, savings and investment is being destroyed by the mis-allocation of accelerating debt basement which is a form of deflation, while raw goods are not nominal price deflating as much (inflation in a relative sense) or are even inflating in price. So this path squeezes the populace at large. The populace turns to the govt for subsidies, and the govt debases more. It is a whirlpool feedback loop to destruction.

When the public does realize they need to move to precious metals, then it is going to create the worst depression of all time. Because it will exponentially make everyone poor beyond your worst imagination. There is only about $1000 of precious metals in the world for each person on earth, and 95% of that won't come to market at less than a few multiples of the current price, and especially as the price goes exponentially, no one will want to sell. So in essense, you have 0.001% of the world's population holding 99.9% of the wealth. So of course what will happen is the govts will be forced to raise taxes to obscene levels (because the people holding the metals are not going to lend it nor invest it in this depressionary cyclone!) and of course then the govts will take 99% of any gold that tries to be spent or move across official channels and fiats.

The big problem is this feedback loop drives people to the govt, and the govt becomes the "decider" of how to grow food, how to take care of the hungry masses.

The only threat to the plan of the Giants is if the precious metals physical default comes too soon, this will cause the crash into the Greater Depression too soon, which will limit the extent of the initial dependence on the govts. If this was fast and severe enough, govts might not be able to keep up with the problem, and people might be forced to fend for themselves. This could cause a backlash against govt, and a massive increase in the use of physical silver for barter. I suspect the Giants would react to this failure, by creating World War 3, which is what they did the last time their New Deal control was failing.

Next time platinum moves down near the price of gold (as it did Dec 2008), buy 5 - 10 x 1oz coins as your "escape though any airport" money. They look like half-dollars, and have $100 stamped on them, and are not yellow color, so you should get through any checkpoint with ease. They are not liquid but for emergency escape capital only. I suppose gold chloride is a way to hide gold, but doubt you can bring it on an airplane.

http://tulving.com/goldbull.html

Very interest, note that as of today Pt, gold, Pd are 49% of theirs 1980s CPI adjusted highs, but silver is only 13%. Is this only because of Hunt bros, or is this indicative of the undervalued nature demonetized of silver which makes its (float, i.e. those in market to sell) marketcap tiny and vulnerable to an exponential increase?

You want to beat the Giants? Create a small society of 10,000 people who put all their savings in silver and who continue earning income and saving. They will become rich and the world will go into Great Depression sooner and be saved possibly from Giants plan (but may bring on WW3).

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Working on Some Comments

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:22 am

Hi Shelby,

I am working on a reply to your post. I am not sure that it will be as devastating as you fear.

Cheers!

Guest
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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty re: potential to be not as devastiting

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:20 am

angophera wrote:Hi Shelby,

I am working on a reply to your post. I am not sure that it will be as devastating as you fear.

Cheers!

India, China, Argentina (probably Brazil?) are all accumulating gold at their central banks. Russia I assume also. There could be a power shift, but also this power shift is not only from some countries to other ones, but also from individuals every where, to billionaires (Taipans) who work in pseudo-harmony with the Giants. Except in India and maybe Vietnam, the precious metals are not really being accumulate by the people en masse. I hear some in China buy precious metals, but I do not think that is more than 0.1 ounce per person on average (1 ounce would be 1 billion oz, and there isn't that much gold in world for sale). There is going to be a large transfer of wealth from the populace to the upper few % of the food chain.

Although the standard-of-living will rise for these people in developing world (because they are coming from such a low standard), instead of 90% of the gain going to them, they will get like 30% of the gain and the PTB will get the rest. The billionaires will get their portion.

The more that people resist their control by upper few %, the more devastating the near-term effects. If people cooperate with the new socialism, then it could be moderate slow cooking over the decades. But in the long run (decades), if the people do not resist this control, they are going to be 100% devasted. Well that is guaranteed already (read Revelations), we just don't know how long it will take.

One thing that is positive for developing world is that if the dollar devaluation against gold, will mean that the relative value of labor in developing world is higher, these people will be able to travel and buy exports from other countries. But it will also mean that many of them will be priced out of the current labor markets they are employed in.

The key is that economic activity in the developing world that is was sustaining the boomer bubble in the west, was mis-allocated capital and will bust. How quickly the economies can readjust to a revaluation of the sectors of the world economy depends in large part on how quickly the govts and central banks will get out of the way.

I understand the inflation I see in pesos in Philippines is because the pesos has been pegged to dollar lately (almost) and thus it can be seen as revaluation because the salaries of the people should also be increasing by the same rate. But seems the govt is lying about the CPI, and thus govt mandated minimum wage is not increasing as fast as the actual changes in prices.

===========
ADD: Warren Buffet's recent investment moves clearly say he is aware of the coming float (revaluation and loss of reserve status) of dollar against gold. He even sold $billions of insurance that the market indices would not decline below certain values in the long run. I have seen Buffet in a photo with Rothschild (one of the Giants).


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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Comments on Some of your Comments

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:05 am

Hi Shelby,

Reading your most recent post I think we are not far apart in interpretation of events. These comments relate to your earlier post.

Shelby wrote:
"So as this plays out, what are the risks of failure for the Giants, of the plan for supra-national, purely transactional (no backing) currencies?"

Angophera writes:
I think the Euro proves to them that the risk is low. Also I don't think the currencies need to be "supra-national". Perhaps the Euro accomplishes other goals for the PTB such as consolidation of the "European Empire". For every currency except the USD it is transactional business as usual.

The only remaining scintilla of risk is that the people reject the Euro when they wake up one day and realise that their currency is not a store of value. I think this risk is vanishingly small and it would disappear completely as soon as they go to a store and find they can still buy things with it (it's still legal tender).

I just read FOFOA's latest post where he points out the numerous early hints and recent unequivocal statements by the ECB that gold is no longer money but it is an "important asset". Important? They list it in the number one spot on their balance sheet, it started as 15% of their assets and it is now 56% and from day one they marked gold to market every quarter.

FOFOA describes Freegold as creating a "meritocracy" for transactional currencies. If say, the Government issuer of a particular fiat currency stabilises or REDUCES the amount on issue its exchange value (AKA purchasing power) would rise relative to gold. Gold would, in effect, signal a need to adjust the exchange value between this fiat currency and other fiat currencies.

Q. Could the Giants' strategy also include putting a leash and muzzle on their spendthrift pet politicians (and regional bankers) so they cannot f*** up the monetary system through massively over-issuing their fiat currencies again?

If true, it would be an elegant twist! After all, is not THE fatal flaw of fiat the ability to over-issue it. A free market in gold could act as a discipline on fiat currency issuers ie. you can still steal but you have to do it very, very slowly and carefully.

We should consider this possible twist very carefully. If it is correct the real danger for all of us in non-USD zones is that the politicians will attempt to keep their spending party going through truly crushing tax and other burdens on their citizens. Not just gold holders.

Shelby wrote:
"Because it will exponentially make everyone poor beyond your worst imagination. There is only about $1000 of precious metals in the world for each person on earth, and 95% of that won't come to market at less than a few multiples of the current price, and especially as the price goes exponentially, no one will want to sell. So in essense, you have 0.001% of the world's population holding 99.9% of the wealth."

Angophera writes:
I don't believe that poverty across the board is going to be the result. Gold is just one form of real wealth. More on this below. If you are already poor and have few or no assets or savings your position would depend on your local currency. If your currency is artificially overvalued you would be in big trouble ie. risk a currency collapse. Sound like anyone you know?

How many rich countries have the power and can afford to manipulate their currency in defiance of the Forex market? I can only think of two - USA and China. Precisely zero poor countries can. In fact the poor countries' currencies could appreciate against some or all of the currencies of the rich ones under Freegold.

FOFOA implies that your experience of this event will depend on which fiat currency you are obliged to transact in. It will also depend on whether you hold your wealth in USD or USD denominated paper sets.

As mentioned above gold is just one form of real wealth. Perhaps we need to keep reminding ourselves that there is a hierarchy in "stores of value" in real "stuff" BUT the declining marginal utility of copper does not = no value at all. Gold may be supreme but it does not make a loaf of bread worthless.

There is a huge amount of evidence that various big money players are taking positions in agricultural land and other hard assets. In other words I think the calculation should be real stuff divided by citizens not just precious metals divided by citizens. You could replace the words "real stuff" with the words "real wealth" and that would INCLUDE a loaf of bread, a bakery, a flour mill and the grain silo full of wheat.

Under this "next generation" system (Fiat Currency V2.0 perhaps) gold doed not compete with currencies it values them relative to each other . It is a NEW "division of labour" in the monetary system that seems in some ways similar to other gold "standards" from history but it is not a direct copy, rather a new version of a gold standard. Maybe that is why it is a bit confusing to those of us who think we know a lot about PMs role in monetary systems.

FOFOA stresses that after Freegold hits gold would have a stable but permanently elevated purchasing power compared to ALL other stores of value including loaves of bread but variable over time in each currency. Gold can then provide the reliable savings vehicle it should always have been in any increment desired eg. "grains" as opposed to grams.

I agree with you, Shelby, that the developing countries have been/do get screwed but perhaps the Giants are only targeting the USA and their partners in crime in this plan.

Shelby wrote:
"The only threat to the plan of the Giants is if the precious metals physical default comes too soon,"

Angophera writes:
I think they have thought the possible outcomes through and they are prepared for contingencies. BTW how do we define "too soon" if they have already got their positions in place? Maybe they don't care when it happens just that it happens.

If FOFOA is right this has been a long time in planning and preparation. I supect that the execution of this plan has to date, despite any appearance to the contrary, been proceeding in line with their plan.

Cheers!

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty quick reply on one point

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:10 am

Note I added to the prior post since you read it:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-15.htm#2221

I pointed out that inflation tax is eating away at wage earners in developing countries. Neverthess at least they have jobs now, so that is a step up from past.

angophera wrote:I just read FOFOA's latest post where he points out the numerous early hints and recent unequivocal statements by the ECB that gold is no longer money but it is an "important asset". Important? They list it in the number one spot on their balance sheet, it started as 15% of their assets and it is now 56% and from day one they marked gold to market every quarter.

Am I mistaken that there is no gold backing the Euro? The gold is only held by the member nations, not the Euro central bank. Or am I mistaken?

And for example, Germany does not have its gold. It was held for them by US Treasury, but we know that gold is likely gone.

The ECB has the correct lingo, but in fact the gold is probably mostly gone from European national central banks? Or am I mistaken?


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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Some issues...

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:29 am

You had some aspects of the theory correct, but I think you perhaps have gravely misunderstood the motivation of the Giants and the implication of what you discovered??? I say that not because I am sure, but because I am worried that maybe you know something I do not? Because afaics below, the prognosis is opposite of what you are expecting.

Remember what the Giants want is to never lose control of the ability to tax by inflation. Rothschild wrote, "let me control a nations currency and I care not who makes the laws". Never forget that. That is their key motivation and always will be.

And the Giants have no way to force a gold system throughout the world if they can't get all the countries back into a one currency that they have control over. Realize they do want to loan in gold (but with a paper proxy), because then via compounding of usury, all the gold will be aggregated with them in a few short decades (as Revelations predicts, they will be holed up on a mountain in Israel when the anti-christ comes to defeat them and give us the wonder of a currency-less system called 666, which I determined is blood system).

Tangent: I know what the 666 will be. It will be a system based on blood. You will pay and receive directly in your blood. I deduced this from the wavelength of red and biblical blue being the magic missing color from both gold and the end times. See Biblical thread for the scriptures.

angophera wrote:...The only remaining scintilla of risk is that the people reject the Euro when they wake up one day and realise that their currency is not a store of value. I think this risk is vanishingly small and it would disappear completely as soon as they go to a store and find they can still buy things with it (it's still legal tender)...

The risk is that ECB sets interest rates policy that member countries can not tolerate. Germany and Italy have very divergent cycles and needs regarding interest rate policy. The risk is that the nations are not yet synchronized enough to be placed in a monetary union.

angophera wrote:...I just read FOFOA's latest post where he points out the numerous early hints and recent unequivocal statements by the ECB that gold is no longer money but it is an "important asset". Important? They list it in the number one spot on their balance sheet, it started as 15% of their assets and it is now 56% and from day one they marked gold to market every quarter.

See my prior post. What is ratio of gold to total value of Euro M4? And how much of that gold is physically known to exist?

angophera wrote:...FOFOA describes Freegold as creating a "meritocracy" for transactional currencies. If say, the Government issuer of a particular fiat currency stabilises or REDUCES the amount on issue its exchange value (AKA purchasing power) would rise relative to gold. Gold would, in effect, signal a need to adjust the exchange value between this fiat currency and other fiat currencies...

The point is that the interest rate policies of all the nations would influence each other. For example, if USA has 0% interest rates, then it's currency gets hammered down, so then China's exports to USA decline drastically in Yuan value, thus causing a recession in China, which then drags the Yuan down, because China has to lower interest rates.

This is not a panacea, because each of the nations can still inflate their currencies to hell and that impacts the other nations. The largest economies will still have the most influence. So what this actually does is it forces countries to join blocs!!!!

KEY POINT: is that gold in individual hands is a free market, but gold and currency decisions centralized (even multiple centers), is not a free market. Because when people are placed in blocs, the lowest common denominator prevails. That is part and parcel of socialism. The system of competing floating currency blocs is socialism!

angophera wrote:...Q. Could the Giants' strategy also include putting a leash and muzzle on their spendthrift pet politicians (and regional bankers) so they cannot f*** up the monetary system through massively over-issuing their fiat currencies again?

No it is exactly the opposite! The giants want blocs, and then a single currency, so that they have complete control. And the best way to do that, is let the nations compete to devalue their currencies!

angophera wrote:...If true, it would be an elegant twist! After all, is not THE fatal flaw of fiat the ability to over-issue it. A free market in gold could act as a discipline on fiat currency issuers ie. you can still steal but you have to do it very, very slowly and carefully.

I do not see that flaw being fixed until after all the nations have joined into one currency with no gold backing, but controlled by the Giants (the last standing Giant, and his name is Anti-Christ). See my logic above. Can you find an error?

angophera wrote:...We should consider this possible twist very carefully. If it is correct the real danger for all of us in non-USD zones is that the politicians will attempt to keep their spending party going through truly crushing tax and other burdens on their citizens. Not just gold holders.

Agreed! There will be crushing taxes, but most likely in the form of huge govt spending and printing money. And then capital controls on gold to keep people from escaping from that forced tax-by-inflation.

angophera wrote:...I don't believe that poverty across the board is going to be the result. Gold is just one form of real wealth...

...It is a NEW "division of labour" in the monetary system that seems in some ways similar to other gold "standards" from history but it is not a direct copy, rather a new version of a gold standard. Maybe that is why it is a bit confusing to those of us who think we know a lot about PMs role in monetary systems...

The big difference is the gold isn't being held by the individuals and the nations can play all kinds of games with CPI and inflation:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-15.htm#2221
https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-15.htm#2216

So I do not see this as a gold standard. It is lie that will be used to suck the remaining productivity out of the developing world.

angophera wrote:...FOFOA stresses that after Freegold hits gold would have a stable but permanently elevated purchasing power compared to ALL other stores of value including loaves of bread but variable over time in each currency. Gold can then provide the reliable savings vehicle it should always have been in any increment desired eg. "grains" as opposed to grams.

I agree with you, Shelby, that the developing countries have been/do get screwed but perhaps the Giants are only targeting the USA and their partners in crime in this plan.

I think they are mostly definitely targetting both developing and developed world as they always do. They use one against the other. And defeat both.

But the problem is people won't be saving in actual gold, but in paper proxies, and the lies will be rampant.

angophera wrote:...Shelby wrote:
"The only threat to the plan of the Giants is if the precious metals physical default comes too soon,"

Angophera writes:
I think they have thought the possible outcomes through and they are prepared for contingencies. BTW how do we define "too soon" if they have already got their positions in place? Maybe they don't care when it happens just that it happens.

If FOFOA is right this has been a long time in planning and preparation. I supect that the execution of this plan has to date, despite any appearance to the contrary, been proceeding in line with their plan.

Cheers!

The Giants want a one world currency. They don't care about the value of the gold they are holding, they care about the paradigm that forces the world to move towards one centralized control.

So if the currency system went directly to chaos now, where people would be motivated to find their own forms of currency, that would definitely muck up their plans, but they have a contingency for that, it is called WORLD WAR 3.

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Reply Again Soon

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:15 pm

Hi Shelby,

I am going to try to collate the key issues we have raised in this exchange of posts. Then I propose to attempt to clarify where I stand and summarise your position, based on your posts, through a series of brief statements. I will post this in the near future.

If you agree I would then like to identify the key questions we are seeking answers to and flowing from that what we think the answers are at this stage and lastly to try to formulate a "what comes next" scenario. At that point "what to do about it" (aside from the obvious things we all have done anyway like buying PMs) might become clearer.

Does that sound like a plan?

Cheers!

Guest
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Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:24 pm

Take your time. No rush. I am not trying to be combative. I just want to raise points of contention so we can try to hash them out.

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Final Conclusion

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:48 pm

Shelby wrote:...You want to beat the Giants? Create a small society of 10,000 people who put all their savings in silver and who continue earning income and saving. They will become rich and the world will go into Great Depression sooner and be saved possibly from Giants plan (but may bring on WW3).

Re-reading the many details in the prior posts on this page and the prior page of this thread, it is clear that the Giants are moving us towards a globalization system, where the dollar will lose its monopoly as a reserve asset and will be replaced by a basket of currencies with a small percentage of gold in the basket. These are called SDRs and are issued by the IMF. This process started in earnest with $300 billion SDRs issued in August. The result is currencies will compete against each other for their fair market value relative to gold (but central banks will hold SDRs, not 100% gold, as reserve asset). In this system, the size of a currency's economy will dictate the influence it has on other currencies' interest rate policy, and given the populace's and thus the nations' desire to give themselves free money (debase with low interest rates-- a hidden form of taxation that discourages savings or encourages savings in gold), thus there will be an incentive for nations to join in currency blocs, so they can drive their will on (influence more) the rest of world. Being small in this form of socialism will not be successful, unless your populace does not want to debase your currency. In the world today, I see no such nation where the populace is not for govt handouts, socialism, and thus debasement form of taxation. Every where in the world, people think the govt should help to solve problems (they worship govt in direct violation of God's will in 1 Samuel 8 and see how God, i.e. natural law, punished this in 1 Samuel 15).

It is true that a low interest rate policy with high rate of debasement (quantitative easing) does incentivize saving in Gold, but the problem is this system is also extremely mis-allocating of capital, causes capital to get sucked away from the working class and to the billionaire capitalists who have access to these low interest rates. This means a feedback loop spiral into ever increasing need for govt assistance for the populace, and it also drives income and inheritance taxes on rich sky-high (90+% in 1930s Great Depression), thus driving gold into hiding. The billionaires can get loopholes, everyone else falls through the cracks to the poor class.

Thus, if any one is really serious, there is only one way to fight this, and that is to go into suitable markets (the developing world is most ripe as still predominately cash markets at retail, even wholesale, with small economies-of-scale), and create all kinds of every day type of businesses. Do these in partnerships with locals, where you take a % of the profit and be generous and encourage your partners to reinvest to pyramid the scheme (remember the biblical 10% tithe rule, once you have extracted your original capital investment), and once you have built up enough varied businesses, then you can move them away from the local fiat and on to your own private metal backed currency. I mean for example, make a cattle ranch, then open meat retailing outlets. I mean open internet cafes, and then also a wholesaler of computer hardware. If you can gain enough scale, then your private currency will work, and as I showed in earlier post, it can be legal. This strategy will force the govts to get their 90% tax not from debasement, but from a VAT, which of course is politically impossible.

This is the only winning strategy. It will delay the Revelations. It won't stop it, because there are not enough of us and the rest of the population multiplies like rats. But we can make a difference.

I am tired of talking. Time for action.

I want to hear serious objections, or serious calls to action.

To all of you who are burying your metals in your vaults and doing nothing, remember the story of the talents in the Bible. God is going to take revenge on you, and it will be the taxation of your metal when you try to use it, until it is gone. You must put your capital to work. Your metals must be used as a currency and trade. I am explaining above how to do it. Get to work all of you!!! I am sick and tired of we all sitting in our chairs typing into blogs. This is a call to action!

In short, we gold/silver bugs must become capitalists. We must compete with the billionaires on our local scale and build up our scale. It is not time to retire! I do not care what your age!

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Post  skylick on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:02 pm

Nice post!

Shelby, you know I am a man of action. I have learned how to extract metals from the earth. I have spent time in the bowels which harbor them. I have aquired land for those who will find themselves penniless in the coming maelstorm. I am willing to give those I can a chance to live in freedom from my land. I have more than I need. I am building a base of partners to assist us by purchasing our goods and produce, produce which is pure and benefical to the body and soul. I am now learning about living water, free from the plumbing of man, pure in form and delivered by the design of God.

A strong and sharp tougue is the result of talking too much. If you want to work together and provide an example to those who believe a righteous walk is not possible in todays world then stand up and let's get to it. I have a plan to reach many enslaved people. Will you join in my efforts? Do you have a plan? If it is better than mine, can I help with yours?

I'm probably the only guy you know that can stand by your side in my belief under extreme pressure. I have stood to take a gunshot at close range for a silly conviction. I have been sliced for not backing down. If I can be courageous in such trivial things, can you imagine what I will be like when I find my ministry? I know you have courage, and I admire it. I think you are mistaken in your belief that we must go it alone as individuals. Jesus had desciples; He taught those who where willing to learn. He was an anchor for those who needed to learn. He taught by example. Are you willing to do the same, or just preach from the bunker?

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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty re: skylick's efforts

Post  Shelby on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:21 pm

Btw, my prior post, caused the "Most Readers Online" in one time, to increase from 9 to 15!

We are separated by distance at the moment, and due to the million person "do not fly list" in USA, plus increasing H1N1 checkpoints (forced vaccinations coming!) at airports, I do not want to be flying back and forth between N.America and Asia, until I reach the point where I can afford to rent my own private jet (at which point I will be carting many people back and forth with me probably).

So build up yours there, and involve many of the gold bugs and Christians there as you can, and I will build up mine over here (and possible S.America later), then we can synergize our efforts once we have both gained some economy-of-scale to trade internationally.

But please try to get some other people with you who as smart as you can find (even smarter than both of us), as they can help us find our mistakes before we make them (e.g. when you wanted to make a 100oz bar machine for yellowcaked, that was an economically unsound plan...hehe I have ears every where...you didn't know did you?), as angophera did in this thread, helping me realize the plan of the Giants, so I can better focus my efforts.

There is nothing wrong with capturing the effects of the bubbles, i.e. being the in real estate business before was wise. But to transistion capital from one bubble to next, while also building up sustainable businesses. Also we are urged to trade with the "foreigners" (those who in the Bible were usurers and not followers of Moses). We can not be islands or try to trade only with each other-- that will fail.

I am busy on many fronts, most of them technology focused which will be used in my plans to turn Philippines in the game production capital of the world. But I also want to branch out into agriculture sciences. You and I can find synergies, but I am not going to touch hemp. Let's stick with the things that are less likely to give the govts an excuse to ruin our efforts.

I am interested in courting guys who are so super intelligent they blow my mind, like this one:

dmbarbour

Some posts that showed me he was much more intelligient than most of the people on that site (most of whom have masters or PhD degrees), and note how these relate to the fundamental theorems of universe:

Simplicity
Pessimism fully warranted and FRP and Immediate-mode Scene-graphs
'Subsets' confuses too many and related Begging the Question
"Fascist with a read only mind"
STM Risks and Composition with Transaction Barriers (an online discussion with me)
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/user/6002/track

Btw, I am interested in being involved with anyone, irregardless of their intellect. Everyone has a role to play in an economic chain, and again, please do not forget that once you've recaptured your investment capital, a fair % is tithe or 10% of the profit (or is that of the gross?).

==========
To summarize, I understand where the world financial system is headed, and it is a 100% socialism enslavement system. It will take a couple of decades to get there. I am suggesting what we can do to change the course of history. And I am suggesting we need to get out and create networks of businesses.

I am working on some specific new business ideas right now. One is to create a network of internet cafes (run by co-invested local managers), and then build software services on top of that. For example open sourcing games creation and then unleash the creativity of these idle young men in the developing world. Give them "games programming classes" instead of drugs. Turn the world into capitalists instead of a social services morass of failure and slavery.


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Post  skylick on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:30 pm

Thanks for the answer. I'll leave you to it then.

Btw, I did know that yellowcaked told you about the machine. He wanted it, and I could have built it for him. If I thought the machine was worthwhile, I would have built one for myself.

You have ears everywhere? Maybe I have eyes everywhere, hee hee. Seriously, you are just talk...all hat and no cattle, as they say.


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What Is Money? - Page 2 Empty Other Voices On The Euro

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Hi Shelby,

While taking a break from preparing the material I flagged to you yesterday I am visiting other sites that I review regularly. If I come across any gems that touch on our discussion I will post them.

From Axel Merk the currency and Forex expert:
http://www.merkfunds.com/merk-perspective/insights/2009-11-05.html

Excerpt from his recent article: Who Cares About the Dollar?
(Emphasis in bold below from me.)
"In the U.S., the federal government can launch a trillion dollar stimulus package; similarly, the Treasury can inject hundreds of billions into ailing banks. Not so in Europe: fiscal stimuli have to come from regional governments; the same with bank bailouts: the money comes from regional pockets. As a result, the Eurozone cannot ramp up spending as quickly as the U.S. Similarly, in our assessment, the ECB’s support programs to the markets carry fewer inflationary risks than those of the Fed; the ECB programs keep banks alive (by providing liquidity on an unlimited basis), although they are slower to recapitalize. As a result, we may see lackluster growth, if any, in Europe, but it may well be with the backdrop of a much stronger currency. It’s a fallacy to assume that one always needs economic growth to support a strong currency (see our analysis of the yen) – that’s only the case when financing from abroad is required to support a current account deficit."

Q. Can you see how the design of the Euro meets the basic "needs" of the banks and politicians but at the same time tries to curb many of their worst excesses? (Excesses on graphic display in the US and UK "model".)

BANK "Needs' Met Under A Transactional Euro:
-They can still fractionally reserve.

-In a bank run or credit squeeze they have access to liquidity.

BANK Excesses Curbed Under A Transactional Euro:
-They cannot obtain unlimited capital to make up for losses and bad management. In other words they cannot socialise their losses and capitalise their profits to the same extent as Wall Street because the Euro is not under the control of ONE Government.

POLITICIANS' "Needs" Met Under A Transactional Euro:
-They can still issue fiat currency. So they can still operate an inflation tax.

-They can exit from the Euro and return to national currency if the system breaks down or fails to take their regional interests into account.

POLITICIANS' Excesses Curbed Under A Transactional Euro:
- They cannot unilaterally issue as much fiat currency as they wish. In other words Euro issuance and debasement is NOT the decision of ONE Government.

- The extent of the inflation tax is limited by their economic performance ie. they can only siphon off the productivity "dividend".

-Interests rates on Euro loans can vary across regions within the EU. Capital flows can, to a degree, reflect regional differences in business cycles and economic performance.

(Please Note: This "differential interest rate across regions" strategy was part of the original architecture of the US Federal Reserve. Trashed when the NY Fed gained total control of interest rate setting.)

-They can be expelled from the Euro if they fail to "play by the ECB rules".

Cheers!

PS. When I post the other material I will highlight how strong the PM tradition is across Europe, the wide availability of PMs and the official encouragement for the public to accumulate PMs eg. the SALES TAX (VAT) on gold was removed when the Euro was launched. Coincidence? I think not.

Guest
Guest


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