Inflation or Deflation?

Thanks Randy, especially the idea of building the pen above the pond.


For sure there will be riots and massive upset of daily life in parts of USA. One question is whether any violence will affect you in your local area.

The reason I am so sure the people with wealth will be attacked (passively/tax or violently/theft), is because the only way the masses can not have their lives reduced to immediate poverty (delaying the worse result in the end), is by stealing from someone. In the past, they've been passively stealing from 3rd World, via the strong dollar ponzi system backed up by the US military and CIA. This kept abusive families on top in 3rd world, and kept the 3rd world enslaved to steal the resources from the 3rd world and give them to the masses in USA.

Have you not noticed that Westerners are the most passively aggressive culture in history of man? All the bad habits grow exponentially, but a non-confrontational manner. It is incideous. But at some point this pent up passive aggressiveness can turn to blazing volcano eruption of overt aggressiveness. Or the passive stealing must continue to grow exponentially.

With the 3rd world now moving to more economic freedom and their own middle class, the USA masses no longer have the developing world to steal from. The Yuan peg has reached it's point of diminishing return. The USA masses can not support their habits themselves, as the country has been drained of all productive capacity and the govt has become 70 - 90% of the economy. These masses will look to the govt for support.

So the only place left to steal from are the people of net worth WITHIN the USA. This is why Celente says there will be a tax revolt.

So of course there will be war within the USA between the haves and have nots. What form this demise takes is really the only variable in my mind. Nevertheless, whether it is violent or passive, the end result is same in that the haves will give up their savings to the have nots (by force if necessary). Some will find a way to bury metal for a long time and wait for new dawn, and this will have varying degrees of success and failure. In any case, all this capital will sit and rot and not be able to participate in the coming boom in developing world (the final push before Revelations final end game). Many will die from old age with their capital still buried and their children getting older without benefit of the capital.

I think the masses will win for a long time, with the size of govt growing every more, until the entire thing slides over a decade into a broken country, with no food, no production, and no economic activity. In short, the USSR again. Because of the masses and their habits and pyschology. The 20% of america that is still good and sane, will be trapped by the 50% that is addicted to an unproductive life. Humans are a creature of habit. Just try to get a friend to change their habits to convince yourself that habits die hard.

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51547#post51547

So the GOLD and SILVER BUGS just have to sit there and WATCH GROWN MEN act like CHILDREN hoping no one notices their LIES. It does get frustrating....but we have to remember......PAPER can't pay down DEBT....only GOLD and SILVER.

The Kings and their operatives at Treasury know that too Steve.

They will trap the metal in west, with the govt growing to 100% of economy, the masses paid to prevent all productive investment. Tax will cancer the economy over decades to drag it down.

The final investment paradigm will developing world, the Kings need to bring the billions down from the farms and on to the credit ponzi system. Metals will be valueable outside the west, as they can be invested in this coming 30 year boom.

Then after 30 years, total world domination will be achieved, and then metals will be useless every where, and as Revelations predicts, we will throw our gold into street to avoid being persecuted worldwide.

The paying down of the debt will occur by devaluing the west relative to the developing world (which holds the debt). The ownership of west will transfer to Kings (who control the developing world also). The metal will be useless on any large scale in west (black market will be small and dangerous). Large scale investment opportunities will exist in developing world until the peak for the world is achieved some 30 years from now.


Let me ask you this? What would drive any growth in USA? The X-generation? They will service the developing world, but mostly by exporting themselves or in high tech work domestically (i.e. low multiplier in the local economy). Most will be on govt stipend, those who do work will support the majority who work for the govt to suppress all investment in the homeland.

Look to Europe as a model. This is more or less what happened to Europe, but we will see it more intense now, because we are further now from when the world on a gold money standard. The ponze fiat ratios are much more extreme this time as compared to 1930s. We didn't have a QUADRILLION of derivatives then. QUADRILLION is a big ponzi balloon. First time ever in world.

What is the alternative perspective? Does developing world need the west to complete reset, before developing world can grow on? I think not.

> I am understanding this. Peter Schiff has spoken/written about how US has
> used borrowed money to consume, rather than produce. And that the US is
> the "caboose" of the world economic train, rather than the "engine". That
> there will be a decoupling of US from developing world as their middle
> class
> emerges, and they (developing world) will want to consume their own goods,
> as opposed to living'
> in poverty and allowing US to buy goods at low prices.

Yes.

And the masses in 3rd world where forcely held back by the US military and CIA making sure that only the hacienda families could have any power in the 3rd world, and helped enforce and manage the theft from the 3rd world over the past decades.

The Philippines was once the richest country in Asia with silver coin money and a higher per capital wealth than Japan. Perhaps that was calculated only for the people in Manila, not the country as whole. Philippines only had million inhabitants in early 1900s, now close to 100 million.

The Kings (cabal) are now ready to do the same to developing world, that they did to USA. Won't take 80 years. Maybe 30. USA destruction did not take as long as Rome. The reason is information moves faster and faster. It has only taken 15 years to put a TV in every place in Philippines, and to transform the youth to western aspirations (credit, materialism, style, rap music, etc). The kids that were born when I first came to Phils, are nearly universally indoctrinated to pursue the western pattern of spiritual decay (ahem I mean "growth").

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/flash-update-80?

To the extent that this morning’s (April 9th) Census Bureau report of a sharp narrowing in the February U.S. trade deficit can be believed, it suggests that U.S. demand (reflected in imports) is slowing faster than demand in the rest of the world (reflected in exports). On a seasonally-adjusted basis, U.S. monthly purchases from the rest of the world (imports) fell by 5.1% in February, while U.S. sales to the rest of the world (exports) actually increased by 1.6%...

Also I recommend reading this if you lost money lately:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dorn/2009/0409.html

Returned from driving trip. Philippines is booming like I never seen before. Construction every where like mad.

Someone asked me what would be the point of capital controls. Rather than let dollars escape and compete with Asia for commodities, trapping the dollars inside the USA will create a bubble (or sustain) in real estate and services, as that is all the USA produces.

I imagine silver skyrocketing later this year, as world becomes aware that Asia will de-couple (commodities bubble renewed) and USA will sink into monetary crisis (monetary flight going bezerk). Mainstream westerners will finally realize they are the cabboose.

What is happening is the centralization of ownership of the USA economy. Who has the $12 trillion? The big banks, the Fed. Those dollars won't leave the country, they just dilute the savings of middle class within the domestic economy, i.e. Keep the real estate propped up, but ownership will transfer from the middle class. America will become a debt-servitude economy.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9922

...In January of 2009, an online publication of the Wall Street Journal, called Market Watch, discussed the possibility of hyperinflation of the United States dollar, and then stated, regarding the possibility of an amero, “On its face, while difficult to imagine, it makes intuitive sense. The ability to combine Canadian natural resources, American ingenuity and cheap Mexican labor would allow North America to compete better on a global stage.” The author further states that, “If forward policy attempts to induce more debt rather than allowing savings and obligations to align, we must respect the potential for a system shock. We may need to let a two-tier currency gain traction if the dollar meaningfully debases from current levels,” and that, “If this dynamic plays out -- and I've got no insight that it will -- the global balance of powers would fragment into four primary regions: North America, Europe, Asia and the Middle East. In such a scenario, ramifications would manifest through social unrest and geopolitical conflict.”...

...A Global Currency - The Phoenix

In 1988, The Economist ran an article titled, Get Ready for the Phoenix, in which they wrote, “THIRTY years from now, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, and people in many other rich countries and some relatively poor ones will probably be paying for their shopping with the same currency. Prices will be quoted not in dollars, yen or D-marks but in, let's say, the phoenix. The phoenix will be favoured by companies and shoppers because it will be more convenient than today's national currencies, which by then will seem a quaint cause of much disruption to economic life in the late twentieth century.”

The article stated that, “The market crash [of 1987] taught [governments] that the pretence of policy cooperation can be worse than nothing, and that until real co-operation is feasible (ie, until governments surrender some economic sovereignty) further attempts to peg currencies will flounder.” Amazingly the article states that, “Several more big exchange-rate upsets, a few more stockmarket crashes and probably a slump or two will be needed before politicians are willing to face squarely up to that choice. This points to a muddled sequence of emergency followed by patch-up followed by emergency, stretching out far beyond 2018-except for two things. As time passes, the damage caused by currency instability is gradually going to mount; and the very trends that will make it mount are making the utopia of monetary union feasible.”

Further, the article stated that, “The phoenix zone would impose tight constraints on national governments. There would be no such thing, for instance, as a national monetary policy. The world phoenix supply would be fixed by a new central bank, descended perhaps from the IMF. The world inflation rate-and hence, within narrow margins, each national inflation rate-would be in its charge. Each country could use taxes and public spending to offset temporary falls in demand, but it would have to borrow rather than print money to finance its budget deficit.” The author admits that, “This means a big loss of economic sovereignty, but the trends that make the phoenix so appealing are taking that sovereignty away in any case. Even in a world of more-or-less floating exchange rates, individual governments have seen their policy independence checked by an unfriendly outside world.”

The article concludes in stating that, “The phoenix would probably start as a cocktail of national currencies, just as the Special Drawing Right is today. In time, though, its value against national currencies would cease to matter, because people would choose it for its convenience and the stability of its purchasing power.” The last sentence states, “Pencil in the phoenix for around 2018, and welcome it when it comes.”...

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0413.html

Fekete is describing the process by which the misallocation of capital with debt based growth eventually implodes productivity. This is deflationary in the overvalued economy, but the undervalued third world continues to grow:

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=454395
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/155305/DPWH-chief-wants-super-region-projects-completed-by-April-2010
http://www.pia.gov.ph/default.asp?m=12&fi=p090412.htm&no=03&r=&y=&mo=
http://mb.com.ph/articles/200840/australia-finances-vismin-road-project

I even read an article today that President of Philippines ordered all projects in Mindanao be completed before end of Q2 2009 and wants the work done 3 x 8 hour shifts per day (non stop working).

It becomes hyperinflationary when the producers in the third world de-couple and refuse the dollar. At that point, to prevent hyperinflation, the flight from dollars has to be managed.

Randy, Though I appreciate your research on feeding mammal sh*t to farmed fish, I think I'd have to be quite hungry to do that. I rather like the closed loop aquaculture of tilapia plus veggies grown in fish sh*t that I mentioned on the JH Forum awhile ago...though it requires some nutrient inputs, like maybe corn meal or old bread. Are you and/or Shelby actually considering it?

(or maybe like my neighbor who claims to have eaten common garden snails, you can feed them "clean food" for a little while before their demise to cleanse their bodies a bit...)

Studbkr2...you always have a HUMOROUS way of putting things. By the way....is JASON HOMMEL's forum DOWN?? I get an ERROR 430 when I try to access it. Or maybe I have been BANNED.

Regardless....what I see going on today in the markets just makes me LAUGH. Grown MEN acting like CHILDREN. CNBC is by far the WORST EXCUSE of INFORMATION ever since PROPAGANDA was invented. THARS a STORM BREWING and it doesn't look good for the United States. Sure, maybe for a bit longer the US DOLLAR may be the LEAST of the BAD (getting tired of that term). Is anyone else just SICK to the point of BARFING when we see the MARKETS RALLY because "COMPANIES LOSSES were NOT AS BAD AS EXPECTED".....FOR PETE SAKES. If I told everyone I LOST 100% of their MONEY...but it turns out that I only lost 85%....EVERYONES CHEERING???? What in the HELL is wrong with AMERICANS TODAY?

It always surprised me to know that so many GERMANS could fall for and follow the LUNATIC HITLER. But Americans of LATE are just as STUPID putting AMERICAN FLAGS on their CARS and following that LUNATIC BUSH and his CRONIES into IRAQ.

Lastly....SHELBY....I do come in here and READ your work. I have to say...when I first started reading your work about the CABAL back 2 years ago...I thought maybe you might be a BIT of your ROCKER...but doing more research and watching many interviews especially RUSS BAKER's Interview on ALEX JONES on his new book about the BUSH DYNASTY....I TAKE IT ALL BACK. It goes above and beyond WEBSTER TARPLEY and CHATKINS "Unauthorized Biography of George Bush". It paints a much different picture of all the PRESIDENTS since EISENHOWER. Its really worth a WATCH. There are 4 parts. I have linked the frist.

You can find it here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR4cwq81qQ&feature=PlayList&p=78A32C3A0B13ABBE&index=0&playnext=1

Yup, the JH Forum is down...I posted it elsewhere on this Forum. I think JH may not be too interested in fixing it since he's busy selling idolatry at his new store (sorry, "numismatics"...I think "idolatry" was his terminology)

Yes, I can't access it either.

...Just picked up this 577 page book at the library; thanks, SRSrocco.

Can't wait to read the 4 chapters with new material on the Kennedy assassination:
- Where was Poppy? (hint: HW was in Dallas).
- Oswald's Friend (hint: someone with CIA connections who was also a friend of HW).
- The Hit (hint- military intelligence figures linked to Poppy Bush's circle were in the pilot car of the motorcade).
- After Camelot

How about 3 chapters rewriting Watergate (Republicans set up Nixon?):
-The Nixonian Bushes
-Downing Nixon, Part I: The Setup
-Downing Nixon, Part II: The Execution

Russ Baker is a mainstream journalist, and the book received praise from Bill Moyers. It was suprising that this new book wasn't on a waiting list-- just walked into the library and picked it up. I guess it has something to do with the Washington Post not liking the book; see their review of it at Amazon.com. (It was the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story).

Now to push a little bit more "off the normal accepted thinking" on the "cabal":

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/

"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now."

Henry Ford in the New York World, February 17th, 1921

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/prtcl_06.html

We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes of the goyim will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash...

I did some more research on fish ponds, and it seems the Philippines has a unique super fish, called "Bangus". It has the positive attributes of Salmon (and more delicious if you ask me), yet it eats algae instead of meat. You may not know that farm raised Salmon must be fed 5x it's weight in anchovies from the sea, which is thus destroying the natural fishing and concentrates mercury in the Salmon.

I do not discard everything Hommel writes, there is some useful info sharing. There are some deeply rooted problems with following Hommel, and I would rather not re-enumerate. I will say generally that I expect it to be unrealistic for most people to profit on the silver situation. I may be wrong in that the silver market is so small that the govt may not be forced by the public to act against the "speculators" (us).

I am now thinking about all this on a much higher philosophical level.

It seems to me that we don't profit in this world in general on the demise or misfortunate of others. Bad situations, end badly for all. Just imagine the world has not enough silver to make honest money, bringing silver back will impoverish a great number of people initially (they will have no money to buy with...they will have to work which is a good thing, but initially the hardship of transistion would be brutal for a short time). Rather we profit in general in life on a our hard work, and production. Most of us have our net worth as a indirect result of the strong dollar and the stealing of the resources of the world from the 3rd world for the west debt bubble. Do you really think the world will let us keep that? Of course, only if we become part of the ongoing scam to enslave the world.

I understand that the world will be impoverished if we don't bring back honest money, but also remember that the production of the world is usually increasing on the long time window, thus even though the govt (corruption/parasite) is always growing, the rebalancing of the world will help many to eat better.

Silver has lost it's usefulness as money. It is too scarce, it can't perform it's function. It will swing wildly in value in society, it will continue to hurt many people, both the investors and/or general public if it becomes highly valued.

Money is the root of all evil.

Remember silver is a speculation, because we are trying to take something which we did not earn. The sweat of the 3rd world is stored in that silver manipulation. We are speculating that we can navigate the return of that value to society in our favor.

Money is the root of all evil.

I am not sure where to store my (drastically reduced) net worth. I want my capital to be productive, and probably in the 3rd world.

I am very conflicted now about silver. I am still invested, and thinking deeply about whether I am doing Biblical duty by storing capital in silver. For any Biblically unequitable activity will of course result in failure in the end.

I would say now that is it probably Biblical to own a little silver, little gold, and if you have capability to invest directly in business (in 3rd world), then do it. But I think it is somehow speculating to put a large % of one's wealth in silver alone. However, it is better than storing it in bonds and the usury.

Shelby quoted from:

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/

Of course today that website is laughable; its extreme old-time prejudice and hatred being obvious. Amazing to see the quotes of leaders of that period and how they tossed slogans around.

The same goes on today, only with different prejudices and slogans. That is where the power is, not in stepping off the stage and talking scientifically about what is happening. Walk around with no costume, and people will cover their eyes; they might even kill.

So with this risk in mind, I’ll discuss the issue of one world government. People are polarized in their positions, and prejudging and throwing slogans at their opponents. Might it simply be a natural transformation, like a chemical reaction, with the prejudice and slogans serving as hormones? I wrote on another forum:

It is like being on the leading edge of new growth on a bush. When the gardener comes around, he will either leave it, shape it, or cut it off. While some might call the gardener God and others call it destiny, the “gardener” is a symbol for what scientifically would be the natural progression for a planet like ours. We are on the bush so we can’t see very well from our limited perspective to make accurate predictions.

As a metaphor, I like to imagine an alien from a distant galaxy looking at our planet, where each year in earth time takes one second in his time. The earth would appear “on fire’ with life, going through various predictable phases. Perhaps the alien has seen thousands of planets go through these same phases before, and knows what happens next.

It would not be too great a stretch to suppose that progression might be from no power center, to various competing power centers, to a single power center (one world government). This scenario seems scary now, but only because we are not ready for it yet. The way things are going, a few nightmare events might get us there. From the perspective of the alien observer, this may simply be watching the earth go through turbulent teenage years on its way to adulthood.

Has anyone heard of a cell with two nuclei, or an organism with two brains? Why would anyone think that the world, now with technology having completed many of its connections and “wiring”, would be any different?

dz20854 wrote:...as anyone heard of a cell with two nuclei, or an organism with two brains? Why would anyone think that the world, now with technology having completed many of its connections and “wiring”, would be any different?

I appreciate your post, especially on how we can not usually see beyond the branches of system we are currently on.

But why is it natural? The Bible and the "Satan's Bible", shows how man's sin leads to the enslavement man in a centralized power structure. And the Bible offers alternatives, where man can lead a free life by only following a few simple rules. Those rules boil down to a simple theme, "live a simple life, devoid as much as possible from material and human needs". Even avoiding jealously (coveting) is covered by that simple theme. That lifestyle leads men to be independent of any material power structure.

But has any one heard of any natural system that survives when all the decisions are made by one brain, or chemical mechanism? Of course not. Natural is robust, because it has zillions of independent actors, each reacting independently to compete for the optimum solution to any set of stimuli. Centrally managed systems crash and burn in nature, because they can not adapt and compete robustly. I already covered this theoretically:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Mass-Entropy_Equivalence.html

Shelby wrote:...Added April 07, 2008: In sociology, diversification is socialism, i.e. the individual relies on the majority. Fiat money, insurance, social security, thus all forms of socialism decrease the wealth of those who depend on them. I reiterate the mathematical proof is "as mass increases exponentially, Entropy decreases linearly, and vice versa". So this means only the individual who is smarter than the bell curve can have a non-constant marginal utility for money. Nature does not allow everyone to be equally smart/wise/wealthy, because it violates the inverse exponential mathematical nature of mass-entropy equivalence...

So the centralized outcome is a failure outcome of man's sin, exactly as predicted in Revelations. For those who opt for the independent simple theme, Jesus (new beginning) is awaiting them on the other side.

You can see how evil uses man's sins psychologically to enslave man (i.e. man enslaves himself):

http://financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2009/0417.html
http://coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/psychopolitics.html (alleged 1950s Russian document referred to in prior article)


P.S. What I just wrote agrees with (but is a superset of) SRSrocco's theme that we must return to localized production.. Where I may have differed with Steve (and perhaps he has not disagreed with me), is that the centralized power structure (people will concentrate into Satan's cities as the "Satan's Bible" predicts) will be the overriding theme for the majority. You will not see the majority opting to become simple, and come through the other side of this centralized crash and burn stage. I suppose thus I am a hypothetical alien and I can see how it is playing out. Steve and others have also apparently seen parts of how this will play out. Together we are weaving the whole picture of the future. Steve and I have 2 slightly different religions, Christianity being proved to me FACTUALLY by it's inherent truth and how it has predicted (2000 years ago) all that is happening now, and as best as I can tell, Steve appears to trying to view everything factually preferring to use more near-term (and thus less well proven and vetted) predictions of human "experts" such as that Peak Oil guy and that silver guy. I see Peak Oil and silver to be just small short-term abberations on the more long-term theme of man's self-enslavement (I prefer to call it man's choice to sin or not). As for data and statistics, remember that all data can be true for a moment in time, but there we are on a branch and not seeing the total long-term picture.

Steve we have to be very careful as these "experts" are perhaps sent to scientifically remove Christianity:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/psychopolitics.html#chap14

The Bible explains this is all very clearly:

1 Samuel 8

Israel Asks for a King
1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges for Israel. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, "You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead [a] us, such as all the other nations have."

6 But when they said, "Give us a king to lead us," this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [b] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king."

Shelby wrote:

The Bible and the "Satan's Bible", shows how man's sin leads to the enslavement of man in a centralized power structure.

Given the context of the time period and setting in which the Bible was written, it offers wise counsel about the dangers of centralized power and in how to avoid enslavement. Revelations provides a vivid parable as to what can happen should centralized power take control, and showing what the thinking would be of the types of people who would be able to survive it.

Technology advanced very slowly in those days, and of course people from then could not forsee the exponential changes occuring now. We are coming upon a change as great as that of a catapillar turning into a butterfly, but to nature all very common and ordinary. Revelations is not about this larger change that is occuring. Yes there will be short term dislocations, some quite severe, and the lessons of Revelations will help some to survive the transition. But the exponential ramping of technology, unforseeable to the Bible writers, is creating conditions where centralized power can and will emerge.

If for no other reason than to prevent “Hurtling Toward Oblivion”, the current trajectory of the world as described by Richard A. Swenson, M.D., in his book of the same title. He wrote:

The world is always, and unavoidably, experiencing an increased profusion.

With each new level of profusion we have much new positive but, unavoidably…much new negative.

The growth of positive is rapid, approximating exponential growth. But the corresponding growth of negative is also alarmingly rapid… the accumulation of negative is [also] exponential.

Once this quantum, this critical mass, of negative reaches a certain threshold of lethality, it will prove fatal for our world system.

Under conditions of exponentiality, change can go from almost undetectable to overwhelming in the blink of an eye.

No amount of positive can offset this negative and the impending lethality.

We have no possible option but to continue in this fatal direction because of our total dependency on progress.

Swenson thinks we can’t avoid total destruction; I disagree. It’s the starting of this destruction that will allow strong central control in a small number of crucial areas. But the good side of technology will bring about far greater freedoms in most facets of daily living.

Shelby wrote:

But has anyone heard of any natural system that survives when all the decisions are made by one brain, or chemical mechanism?

I agree-- even a single brain is actually a community of competing interests. The conscious part is actually only a small part of that community. Even within the conscious part there can sometimes emerge multiple personalities. I suppose the G20 could be looked at as a single brain. Why should physical location matter in an age of instant communications? Maybe we are just talking semantics.

Imo, the Bible writers understood exponential time, as evident by them using the actual years divided by orders-of-magnitude, so that when the time came we would be able to relate to the rate of change in their stories. They also predicted the exponential increase in technology, refer to the scripture that says communication and travel will increase greatly.

I think the good power of technology will actually be used to destroy the evil as Romains 13 says:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/biblical-f3/love-of-money-self-pleasure-and-false-prophets-in-end-times-t74.htm#1331

It is a simple fact of thermodynamics (Entropy) that highly ordered systems are unstable and can not survive long. Have you ever noticed the more ordered you make your life, the more effort it takes to keep it ordered? See my Mass-Entropy theory. So Swenson falls into the trap of those who misintrepret Romains 13, i.e. anyone who covets the material results will see the destruction as against them, but anyone who desires heaven will see the destruction as the opening of the narrow gate for those who chose to come out of the evil (and beheaded or whatever comes materially in the time of great change near the peak in the 666).

The changes can be incredibly rapid at the peak of exponential systems, e.g. see the Water Lily story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth#The_water_lily

The Bible provides wisdom on how to escape the damnation and wrath of the good power, and it is essentially to come out of the evil. So when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

I have been thinking (and researching technology ideas) a lot the past days about how I could use my technology skills to help people come out of the evil of the system. The best idea I have thus far is to enable more communication. I probably should have continued to improve my original business, coolpage.com. The past 3 years with silver and Hommel were apparently to give me better wisdom of to how to apply my skills in good power.

Shelby wrote:

when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

When Swenson talks about the bad side of exponential increase in technology, he is not primarily talking about anything evil. He thinks the added capabilities, volume and speed have outgrown what our world can handle.

Like a small home based business being operated out of an old 1920’s house that has aluminum wiring. The business is growing exponentially with ever more employees, numerous computers, and things like microwave ovens. An electrical disaster waiting to happen. Also, fixtures might be treated roughly; something that institutional quality furnishings might allow for but not residential grade. It's not that the employees are evil; just that the furnishings should be built to withstand that type of traffic.

Think of how people plant computer viruses just for kicks and not trying to earn any money from it. With billions of people in the world and the type of technology being made available, we might find that some of the things being done for “kicks” could destroy the planet. Some of these people might be more naive or thoughtless than evil. A strong system needs to be in place so that the effect of any such activity could be contained.

Swenson wrote his book in the late 1990's (before 9/11) and was invited for consultations with the Pentagon and Congress. Perhaps it was thought that there was a near 100% chance for Swenson's theory to come to pass, and so we see false flag and other extreme measures being attempted in a last ditch effort.

Some additonal thoughts on Revelations, all just IMO:

Shelby wrote, refering to Romans 13:

anyone who covets the material results will see the destruction as against them, but anyone who desires heaven will see the destruction as the opening of the narrow gate for those who chose to come out of the evil.

The Bible writers wanted to place emphasis on “heaven” and the “narrow gate” leading thereto, but could not explicitly define these terms and still be graceful. They knew that “material results”, even to excess, do not necessarily block the gate, but they needed a socially acceptable whipping boy to add power to their words in lieu of being able to be explicit in their definitions. They wanted the reader to figure out what was left unsaid. This was suggested when Jesus turned away and claimed not to know people who had followed the text literally without discovering the unspoken.

The “end of the world” in Revelations might actually be referring to the end of the life of an individual person. Seeing this shift in levels helps reveal the meaning of Revelations. The Bible has always preferred to leave matters of the world to Ceasar.

dz20854 wrote:Shelby wrote:

when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

When Swenson talks about the bad side of exponential increase in technology, he is not primarily talking about anything evil. He thinks the added capabilities, volume and speed have outgrown what our world can handle...

Think of how people plant computer viruses just for kicks and not trying to earn any money from it. With billions of people in the world and the type of technology being made available, we might find that some of the things being done for “kicks” could destroy the planet. Some of these people might be more naive or thoughtless than evil. A strong system needs to be in place so that the effect of any such activity could be contained...

I have not read him, so I will respond only to your summary.

100% disagree. The stronger and more centralized the control, the more likely the failure. Do you understand Entropy? Here is the math:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Mass-Entropy_Equivalence.html

Example. Microsoft software is much more prone to crash and failure to viruses, because it is written in a centralized, closed source manner. Whereas, open source written in a free market and competitive manner tends to be much more robust, because the virus writers have access to the source code also! This seems counter-intuitive, but what makes an immune system strong is getting sick as many times as possible. Experience leads to wisdom. This is all explained by the math of Entropy.

If we have a decentralized and highly competitive free market on the internet, then the internet will become very robust. TPTB are trying to centralize it and thus eventually destroy it (it will become vulnerable to viruses if they centralize strong control), but luckily I think it is impossible for them to get control over it. At the same time they are increasing their centralized control over money and politics, the internet seems to be the free market release valve of this epoch.

dz20854 wrote:...The “end of the world” in Revelations might actually be referring to the end of the life of an individual person. Seeing this shift in levels helps reveal the meaning of Revelations. The Bible has always preferred to leave matters of the world to Ceasar.

Those who perish in Revelations (who take the Mark 666 and become part of the centralized system) will fail to flourish because they chose the failure direction of minimum Entropy (maximum order).

Those who stay free with God and forsake material burdens (needs), will flourish.

It is simple math. Entropy. Always has been in nature. Always will be.

There is new evidence already. People in the USA think they are individuals, but most are mostly programmed chickens:

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/04/escape-from-the-zombie-food-court.html (don't agree with his socialism ideas for solutions)

And because they have lost their individuality, they are failing and dying as a race and country and culture. The people have even lost their individuality spiritually, falling to organized churches instead of praying in their room as Jesus instructed in Matthew 6:5.

Note that Joe Beagan's prose is very much pro-cabal, because he teaches that we can not be unique, he doesn't mention biblical concepts such as Matthew 6:5, and he instead offer the false idols of a perfectly socialistic new society (typical cabal pysops).

Back to the original topic of this thread. Now Fekete finally agrees with me (maybe he did all along):

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0427.html

Fekete wrote:...This is the secret of deflation, and the answer to the much-debated question whether you can have hyperinflation and deflation all at the same time. The answer is that you can, because hyperinflation refers to electronic money that people reject, and deflation refers to FR notes that people hoard...

...people when they find out that their deposits are “gone with the wind”...

I have been saying that the liquid electronic dollar will hyperinflated and if you want to unlock any capital outside the USA, you need to act quickly. The green paper dollars may become more valuable than their face value, as this is what Gresham's Law predicts (just as silver coins did in 1965). Expect the USA to then stop making FRNs entirely, just as they stopped making silver coins.

I think it is a lot easier to counterfeit an older version of a FRN than a silver coin.

Of course this will send silver value to the moon, but as I said, the cabal is not going to let you walk away with those capital gains easily. They got you trapped because what you can buy with your silver that would be covered by govt's ability to tax, if silver goes to say $100 per oz and your 5,000oz becomes $0.5 million?

Sure some will find ways to navigate this. One of my strategies is to move some of my silver outside the USA. Which is a strategy advised by CaseyResearch.com also.

Shelby wrote:Back to the original topic of this thread. Now Fekete finally agrees with me (maybe he did all along):

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0427.html

Fekete wrote:...This is the secret of deflation, and the answer to the much-debated question whether you can have hyperinflation and deflation all at the same time. The answer is that you can, because hyperinflation refers to electronic money that people reject, and deflation refers to FR notes that people hoard...

...people when they find out that their deposits are “gone with the wind”...

I have been saying that the liquid electronic dollar will hyperinflated and if you want to unlock any capital outside the USA, you need to act quickly. The green paper dollars may become more valuable than their face value, as this is what Gresham's Law predicts (just as silver coins did in 1965). Expect the USA to then stop making FRNs entirely, just as they stopped making silver coins.


I think it is a lot easier to counterfeit an older version of a FRN than a silver coin.

Of course this will send silver value to the moon, but as I said, the cabal is not going to let you walk away with those capital gains easily. They got you trapped because what you can buy with your silver that would be covered by govt's ability to tax, if silver goes to say $100 per oz and your 5,000oz becomes $0.5 million?

Sure some will find ways to navigate this. One of my strategies is to move some of my silver outside the USA. Which is a strategy advised by CaseyResearch.com also.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/brochert050309.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/baltin050109.html

There is going to be massive deleveraging, with massive inflation also. Govts will go bezerk trying to deal with this:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/health-f5/preparing-for-coming-crisis-t41-15.htm#1383 (Streent fignhting Man)

Which means Gold will be at premium. if the scarcity of silver can send up to 5 or 10 ratio to gold, then silver will have some of the portability advantages of Gold, along with it'smimportant function of giving change. imagine if 1/10th oz Gold goes to $1000 (in current dollars), then 1oz silver is more viable for a bribe or barter at $100. However, i remain skeptical about return of silver as money.

Remember overvalued jobs and business will deflate, and developing nations will inflate. The dollar will deflate in value, which will inflate prices in dollars. Then all the chaos of that.

Seems to me TPTB are trying to create a situation where the masses will not want the dollar, because it will have been so corrupted and debased. So the masses will agree to a new land-locked jail currency, wherein TPTB get to walk away with all the exportable value.

I am so sure of that, that I am taking a hit to my meager net worth, to get my physical metals out of the USA.

When they are ready, they will also declare greenbacks null & void.

You have really only way to be entirely without risk, and that is to be outside of USA with your metals in your possession and the ability to live daily without much fiat.

Inside the USA is going to problemmatic, TPTB have a plan to deal with the gold and silver bugs in the USA. Specifically my best quess is they will turn the masses against you. They will let the chaos work against you. They will say that some people hoarded the gold that was illegally leased from Fort Knox. They will make you the criminal in the eyes of the masses. This won't work abroad, as the masses in developing world are not in debt and will benefit from this coming devaluation of the dollar. I know that some areas of USA are not deep in debt and have better values. Many of those people have guns. But how many of them have precious metals? I don't know. I hope a lot of them have. Then we will see a real battle and chance for TPTB to fail (at least partially).

In the past 6 months, it is like the govt opened the floodgates on capital spending here in Mindanao. I been coming over here since 1994, and I have never seen it like this. Road projects every where, new buildings going up every where, and new installment loan businesses for motorcycles popping up all over even in remote rural provinces.

It appears as the TPTB have decided to open full throttle the govt credit and private credit spigots. I remember in past decades, installment credit loans here were 15 - 20% interest rate, but now single digits especially real estate loans. However, remains the typical gouging of the poor, with 20 - 30% interest rates on small installment loans for motorcycles. And still costs me $120 for pair of new tennis shoes that cost $25 in USA. The govt taxes all imports heavily, as there is almost no income tax here (only the upper middle class professionals pay one). There is 12.5% VAT on top of all that.

I read that during the Great Depression in USA, the top income tax was near 90% but only the upper middle class paid it. Seems the govt is already much larger and taxes more heavily in developing world, than was the case of the USA during early 1900s?

There is enormous pent up demand and supply in developing world. I suppose the economy here in Mindanao is growing at 10 - 20% right now. But it seems that the govt is also growing very fast. Seems to me, it won't take 80 years to get Asia to the stage that USA is now. I think it will take only one generation that are teenagers now, unlike USA it took the boomers who were born after war. The teenagers here are for the most part ready to take on debt in massive amounts and ready to adopt every aspect of what they saw on TV. The massive push over the past 15 years was to put electricity in every remote area of the developing world (TV in every home).


=====
Btw, the gold is NOT at Ft. Knox:

Shelby wrote:...They will say that some people hoarded the gold that was illegally leased from Fort Knox. They will make you the criminal in the eyes of the masses...

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/0513.html

...When Central Banks lease gold, it PHYSICALLY leaves the vault...

...the I.M.F. admits that Central Banks double count gold...(IMF wrote:)"...it cannot be the case that both the claims and the gold are simultaneously liquid and readily available to the monetary authority..."

...In April, 2008 the Federal Reserve responded to GATA’s request, releasing part or all of hundreds of pages of worthless information, but also claiming that it was withholding all or part of the information of about 400 pages of documents. The status of the withheld documents is currently under appeal.

These stonewalling tactics – with holding details - are eerily similar to those employed by Messer’s Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner refusing to divulge frank details as to “who” the beneficial recipients were of TARP and TALF funds...

Folks, TPTB will admit the fraud when they are ready to toast the dollar system probably sometime in 2010...they will let the Comex default, they will let the ETFs default, etc. Everyone will be settled in worthless electronic dollars, and besides IRS will come to take a big portion of that, as Obama ramps up the taxes...then for those who do try to escape the morass, there will be capital control, militarized borders and airports...all for "anti-terrorism" of course...

Who are the terrorists? The gold and silver bugs are!

You can see that they are setting up the IMF to be the "honest" party and the national central banks in west (especially USA) to be totally corrupt, so that the masses will agree that an international order is necessary.

Why will TPTB decide to bail out of the dollar? Because everyone is figuring out their manipulations and is learning to beat the "strong dollar" system:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/sutton/2009/0515.html

How to bailout of the dollar to maximize their control? Hyperinflation with lots of volatility along the way to keep people in speculation, maximize frictional losses, and keep most from making a clean run for the exits (parachute):

http://financialsense.com/editorials/swenlin/2009/0515.html (note this S&P inverse H&S would correlate with the timeline inverse H & S for gold, i.e. a massive inflationary burst by Fall of this year, instead of a massive deflationary downleg)
http://financialsense.com/editorials/litle/2009/0515.html
http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/deepcaster/2009/0515.html

Bottom line though is that as long as 1% of the people don't move into *PHYSICAL* Gold (or 0.1% into silver), i.e. grab a parachute, then TPTB can continue the manipulations and won't need to bust the dollar, Comex, ETFs yet. So what is your guess on when 1% will have run for the exits of the fiat system?

My guess by March 2010. Celente predicts riots by 2012, so I don't know how long before that he expects the bust of the dollar? Seems to me the 1% will wake up and that will cause the bust of the dollar, which will then to lead to the riots some what later.

Quote from Shelby...
"In the past 6 months, it is like the govt opened the floodgates on capital spending here in Mindanao. I been coming over here since 1994, and I have never seen it like this. Road projects every where, new buildings going up every where, and new installment loan businesses for motorcycles popping up all over even in remote rural provinces."

You're not kidding are you!!! Wow!!! There are some nice places to live, check this out.

http://mountainpinesfarm.com/

It’s a subdivision spread out on 275 hectares in the hills with a pine forests... Nice! Maybe start a communal expats resort???

I would like to go knowing what is coming/all ready here. But the Lord has given me other plans in Belize. I believe that a massive war is coming by 2012, nukes and all, then not long after 3&1/2 years of peace? Let's see. For now lets just pray we will be in the {Right Place at the Right Time}. Doing God's will___
I was once told by an old friend who past away that if the US goes down the world will prosper. I didn't like what he said back then but now when I think of it, it makes me wonder. My friend once said that after WW2 the whole world changed. He said it had become enslaved to the Americans and now I know why...
The TRUTH is, we have become enslaved to the ... yes... bankers... sad... For those who understand, Lord come quickly and those who don't just follow this forum.

Read Danial 2;44 it says all nations will be crushed.1st jhon shows who is in control of this world.We are looking for his kingdom to come it well have no borders.So do you belong to this world or are you no part of it?

Shelby wrote:In the past 6 months, it is like the govt opened the floodgates on capital spending here in Mindanao. I been coming over here since 1994, and I have never seen it like this. Road projects every where, new buildings going up every where, and new installment loan businesses for motorcycles popping up all over even in remote rural provinces.

It appears as the TPTB have decided to open full throttle the govt credit and private credit spigots. I remember in past decades, installment credit loans here were 15 - 20% interest rate, but now single digits especially real estate loans...

> friend in email wrote:
> The pattern in the past in such countries has been:
> 1. rape them until they demand outside help from banks & other govts.
> 2. meanwhile, criminals move into power in govt at all levels.
> 3. create "false prosperity" via loans from intl banks.
> 4. create conflict w/ other nations or cause internal groups to oppose
> each other.
> 5. solve the conflicts w/ war of some type.
> 6. more loans to cover the costs of war/security
> 7. govt forced to nationalize industry to pay back loans.
> 8. banks take control of real estate and major industries.

That describes the old Philippines. There seems to have been shift towards creating a credit based middle class in Asia. Now it seems that pattern you describe is shifting to USA.

RobRoy wrote:...You're not kidding are you!!! Wow!!! There are some nice places to live, check this out.

http://mountainpinesfarm.com/

It’s a subdivision spread out on 275 hectares in the hills with a pine forests... Nice! Maybe start a communal expats resort???

I would like to go knowing what is coming/all ready here. But the Lord has given me other plans in Belize. I believe that a massive war is coming by 2012, nukes and all, then not long after 3&1/2 years of peace? Let's see. For now lets just pray we will be in the {Right Place at the Right Time}. Doing God's will___
I was once told by an old friend who past away that if the US goes down the world will prosper. I didn't like what he said back then but now when I think of it, it makes me wonder. My friend once said that after WW2 the whole world changed. He said it had become enslaved to the Americans and now I know why...
The TRUTH is, we have become enslaved to the ... yes... bankers... sad... For those who understand, Lord come quickly and those who don't just follow this forum.

I avoided it on my bus trip in 1993 down through Mexico, Guatemala, probably for subconscious personal reasons of it being where my Dad went when he left my mom when I was 5. I suppose Belize is very nice along the Gulf coast? But the gulf is very warm water; whereas here on the Pacific, the water is very cold and moderates temperature I suspect more?

Thanks for that link, I will check it out next time I am there.

I was at Manolo Fortrich location of that subdivision last week. That is the massive Del Monte pineapple plantation. Pineapples for as far as the eye can see. Great climate when sun is out. Pineapple so sweet, and cost only 10 cents (or even free). You can eat good food at the Del Monte restaurant. I had them bake me some potatoes and chop suey.

The downside is that when it rains and the fogs come in, then you can do pretty much nothing but stay inside. The rain blows sideways and will come inside the smallest pinhole crack. Nothing dries, and mold develops. I hate snow and I love sunshine, so I can only tolerate a place like that as a rest house, not for year round living. I like to get out every day in the outdoors. The problem with Philippines is it is either too hot in lowland, or too humid/foggy/damp/wet in the mountains.

It is close to Cagayan de Oro which is a reasonable size city, but Davao is much nicer. We have mountain resorts like that near Davao, but not next to a huge pineapple plantation.

Mt. Kitanglad is gorgeous, because the flatland comes right up to meet it. Those are nice size lots (1000sqm is about 100' x 100'). Much better than the 100sqm (1000 sq ft) lots they put in typical subdivision in Philippines.

lucky wrote:Read Danial 2;44 it says all nations will be crushed.1st jhon shows who is in control of this world.We are looking for his kingdom to come it well have no borders.So do you belong to this world or are you no part of it?

Thanks for sharing that, I remember that scripture.

We don't know on what timeline that is, do we? Maybe uneven gyrations can occur along the way?

I said to myself, if I were to get trapped in one country, which one would I want it to be? And for now, the answer is Philippines. I was often lonely in USA, because I couldn't find "my people" there. I drove all over the southern part of USA searching for "my people" and I didn't find. I mean people you can sit and talk with for hours, who is root crops and pay no mind to worldly events. People with good heart, who understand and tolerate imperfection, but who are strung out on medications, etc... I just really don't like Western culture, I don't even like apple pie (or anything with refined sugar in it). I was sugar addict in my early 20s, and that was a miserable way to live. The North climate is not for me. I hate snow. I hate cold. I hate to be trapped inside the house for more than few hours unless I am on computer. I have found more communion with the folks in these forums than I found for the most part in USA. When I was younger in USA, I had a lot of friends, when I was into doing wrong things, such as drinking too much. But as I got older, people just seemed to get weirder to me. Maybe it was myself getting weird. I don't know, and I don't try to understand it. I wasn't always comfortable with the Philippines. For years, I felt lost over here as well. So maybe it is just what you get used to.

But I must say that for the short-term, it seems to me that the changes the USA will go through are drastic in mostly negative ways. Whereas, it seems to me that TPTB have to credit growth and prosperity in developing world in order to get progress towards their one world government. They can't have these people living in jungle still in mountains. Too hard to control them. They will instead make the entire Mindanao into a subdivisions, just like they did in USA.