Who really controls the govt? (Conspiracy Theories thread)

[Shelby]

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf
pg.17

...The great innovative thinker R. Buckminster Fuller also came to
understand that the United States is ruled by powerful men behind the
scenes. "The USA is not run by its would-be 'democratic' government,"
he wrote shortly before his death in 1983. "Nothing could be more
pathetic than the role that has to be played by the President of the
United States, whose power is approximately zero. Nevertheless, the
news media and most over-thirty-years-of-age USA citizens carry on as
if the President has supreme power."...

[Shelby]

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf
pg.30

...In 1980, the American
Legion national convention passed Resolution 773, which called for
a congressional investigation of the Trilateral Commission and its predecessor
the Council on Foreign Relations. The following year a similar resolution
was approved by the Veterans of Foreign Wars (WW).

Congressman Larry McDonald introduced these resolutions in the
House of Representatives but nothing came of it. McDonald, who as
national chairman of the John Birch Society was a vocal critic of these
secret societies, died in the still-controversial downing of Korean Airlines
007 on Septemher 1, 1983...

p.31

...During the 1980 presidential campaigns, Republican candidate Ronald
Reagan went on the record blasting the nineteen Trilateral in the Carter
administration—including Carter himself, who wrote that his association
with the commission was "a splendid learning opportunity"—and vowed
to investigate the group if elected. While competing with George Bush for
the nomination, Reagan lambasted Bash's membership in both the Trilateral
Commission and the CFR and pledged not ro allow Bush a position
in a Reagan government.

Yet during the Republican national convention a strange series of
events took place.

While Reagan was a shoe-in as the presidential candidate, the vice presidency
was the object of a contentious fight. In midweek, national media
commentators suddenly began talking about a "dream ticket" to be composed
of President Reagan and Vice President (and former president) Gerald
Ford. Pressure began building for this concept, which would have created
a shared presidency and, hence, divided power. It was even suggested
that since Ford bad been president he should choose half of the Reagan
cabinet.

Faced with the prospect of presiding over half a government, Reagan
rushed to the convention floor late at night and announced, "I know that
I am breaking with precedent to come here tonight, and I assure you at
this late hour I'm not going to give you my acceptance address
tonight. .. . But in watching the television at the hotel and seeing the
rumors that were going around and the gossip that was taking place here
... let me as simply as I can straighten out and bring this to a conclusion.
It is true that a number of Republican leaders . . . felt that a proper ticket
would have included the former president of the United States, Gerald
Ford, as second place on the ticket.... I then believed that because of all
the talk and how something might be growing through the night that it
was time for me to advance the schedule a little bit.... I have asked and
I am recommending to this convention that tomorrow when the session
reconvenes that George Bush be nominated for vice president."
Reagan never again uttered a word against the commission or the
CFR. Following his election, Reagan's fifty-nine-member transition
team was composed of twenty-eight CFR members, ten members of the
elite Bilderberg group, and at least ten Trilaterals. He even appointed
prominent CFR members to three of the nation's most sensitive offices:
Secretary of State Alexander Haig, Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger,
and Secretary of the Treasury Donald Regan. Additionally, he
named Bush's campaign manager, James A. Baker III, who then served
as chairman of the Reagan-Bush campaign committee, as his chief of
staff. Baker is a fourth-generation member of a family long connected
to Rockefeller oil interests.

Then little more than two months after taking office, President Reagan
was struck by an assassin's bullet which, but for a quarter of an inch,
would have propelled Bush into the Oval Office seven years before his
time. Oddly enough, the brother of the would-be assassin, John W. Hinckley,
had scheduled dinner with Bush's son Neil the very night Reagan was
shot...

[Shelby]

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf
pg.95

...A more recent example of members' fierce loyalty was shown in the
1980s scandal of President Bush's connection with the criminal activity in
the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). As the bank's
illegal activities came to light—involving many prominent names—
attempts were made by the Bush administration to block or blunt any
meaningful investigation. Finally a formal investigation of the BCCI was
launched by the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Terrorism,
Narcotics, and International Operations headed by Massachusetts senator
John Kerry. Kerry was chairman of the Democratic Senate Campaign
Committee, which had received significant BCCI contributions, and he
was also a member of Skull and Bones. The Kerry-led investigation
foundered. Jack Blum, a special counsel to Kerry's subcommittee, stated,
"I proposed a serious investigation of BCCI and was brushed aside.... A
high-level cover-up of everything concerning BCCI was set into place after
Customs stumbled across their money-laundering operation in Miami,
and it's still in place."...

Obama Economic Controller Is Skull And Bones Member:
http://www.rense.com/general80/web.htm

Only 15 juniors a year at Yale get to becom Skull & Bones. They look out for each other the rest of their life:

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf

pg.94

...Each year, only fifteen Yale juniors are selected to participate in Skull
and Bones during their senior year.
In addition to extraordinary secrecy—Bones members are required
to leave the room if anyone should mention the group...

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf

p.97

...One of the most thorough
investigations of institutional stockholders ever conducted was a
1980 study by the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs entitled
Structure of Corporate Concentration. Its conclusion, as reported by
author Donald Gibson, was to the point; "Financial institutions, part
of or extensively interrelated with the Morgan-Rockefeller complex,
are the dominant force in the economy."...

[Shelby]

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf
pg.376-7

...Sitchin had the audacity to question why the Old Testament
term Nefilim was translated as "giants" when the original word meant
"Those Who Were Cast Down." Predictably, instead of being praised for
his initiative and attention to accuracy, young Sitchin was chastised for
questioning the Bible. But the incident set him on a lifetime quest for the
truth behind the inconsistencies and puzzles of the ancient texts.
Sitchen's question was well founded. Rather than simply "giants," the
Holman Bible Dictionary defines the Old Testament Nefilim as "ancient
heroes who, according to most interpreters, are the products of sexual
union of heavenly beings and human women" as stated in Genesis 6:4
(New International): "The Nefilim were on the earth in those days—and
also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and
had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."...

[Shelby]

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119974.pdf
pg.379

...Life on Earth evolved based on its one-year orbit around the sun, the
solar year. Life on Nibiru developed based on its one-year orbit around
the sun—3,600 years to Earthlings. It then stands to reason that life on
Nibiru would have evolved somewhat sooner than on Earth. This disparity
of time may also be illustrated as how an insect with a weekslong
life might perceive a human with a normal lifespan as immortal...

Thus realize that 1 hours (60 mins x 60 secs = 3,600) in our time, would 1 second to those aliens. Thus the aliens could stay long in our timeline, as they would not lose massive time from their homeland. 3600 years here on earth, would be 1 year in their homeland, so it is theoretically possible for some of them to stay here on Earth for 1 year in their home planet timeline, to manage between every 3600 years that their planet's orbit puts it near to earth.

Thus perhaps the aliens interbred here and instructed their bloodline to use methods of to concentrate gold in known locations so it can be confiscated on the return of the aliens. This might explain everything in Revelations. Well I don't want to get into religious debate, as I am not stating anything here as fact, just sharing some thought vexing stuff from this book.

For me it is simple, if a people consume more than they produce, then all their past labor (e.g. stored capital) ends up in someone else's hands, i.e. the elite (irregardless of whether the elite are or represent an alien master race):

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9.htm#304 (Credit != Capital)
https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44.htm#389 (why this impacts what humans accept as money)

[Shelby]

MUST SEE (will blow your mind! we didn't know anything until we saw this):

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/512.html
http://cafr1.com/ (another copy of video on this site if link above does not work)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Walter+Burien&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

100% communism in USA. Govt owns everything.

Sort of makes SilverStockReport's "State Silver Coin Proposal" look inane. How could the fox (syndicates) ever be expected to use a hard money where their operations would be inherently limited. I mean not to criticize, but geez Jason, you didn't know this? Well I didn't know this either. Just blows my mind.

[Shelby]

http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/granville.shtml

[Shelby]

Well worth watching and forwarding to others. I thought I had already seen all the relevant evidence on the twin tower hoax arguments, but this one blows my mind and it is on the Pentagon attack:

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

[Shelby]

Components of our Fed govt are so evil, it just boggles the mind. Don't any of you feel any responsibility to spread this information?

The evidence against the official govt story on the Pentagon 9-11 attack, is much more concise and irrefutable, than the theories about the WTC towers (all 3 towers that fell down):

Well worth watching and forwarding to others. I thought I had already seen all the relevant evidence on the twin tower hoax arguments, but this one blows my mind and it is on the Pentagon attack:

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

It amazes me that as I google the link above, people are ignoring this new video evidence. The 13 eye witness accounts irrefutably place the path of the airplane on the north side of the Columbia pike, which means the angle of internal damage to the Pentagon is inconsistent, and inconsistent with the liar official flight path south of Columbia pike. In short, the plane could not have hit the Pentagon, which agrees with the witness accounts of the plane flying over the Pentagon and flying over the south parking lot as it flew away.

Also when you get into the details of the Lloyd England's (the taxi cab driver) interviews, you really start to understand that the official govt story is utter nonsense:

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2288#comments

This video is the best work so far from CIT
Submitted by Keenan on Sun, 2009-06-14 17:37.

The part about Lloyd England, tha cab driver, is quite shocking and revealing. Lloyd England has exposed himself as a liar and an accomplice who practicly admits that he was paid off to participate in the scheme of the fake collision with the light poles.

The official legend would have us believe that a light pole struck by a passenger plane and turned into a missile struck Lloyd's cab square in the middle of the windshield. Miraculously, the light pole stopped just barely sticking through the windshield and, magically, suspended itself in mid air or something, so as not to cause any dents or other damage, leaving Lloyd and his cab car unscathed and unscratched, except for a small hole in the middle of the windsheild, cuz, I guess that is exactly how a light pole turned missile struck by a 500 miles per hour passenger plane would be expected to behave. Then, Lloyd and a mysterious bystander become super human heroes and immediately lifted the huge heavy light pole out of the cab car and carefully placed it on the ground, carefully, so as not to scratch the hood, real quick like before any photographs were taken, cuz, I guess that is the first thing you would do immediately after surviving such a close brush with death. Anyway...

While not directly confessing his role in the black op deception at the Pentagon, Lloyd does admit that the whole thing was "planned" by powerful people with money, and that he is just a little person who shouldn't have gotten involved in such a big scheme.

The research that CIT has done is quite original and extremely valuable to the truth movement in discovering what actually happened at the Pentagon. Their theory of the north side of Citco approach and fly over fits the available evidence better than any other theory about what happened at the Pentagon, and completely disproves the official story...

After watching the main CIT video (linked above), then watch the entire detailed Lloyde England interview:

http://thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm


I expected that as TPTB ("the powers that be") lost control of the economy, then the various accomplices to the 9-11 attacks would start to come out. I think they felt safe, only as long as TPTB could guarantee them protection. You can clearly see Lloyde England is feeling the tide turn and that he has put protecting himself above protecting the story of TPTB.

The 9-11 truth will come out in mainstream finally probably in a couple of years, which will be one of the factors that could help drive the coming riots and anarchy in USA by 2012.

However, as in Nazi Germany, the State is gaining control over the media (everyone waited too late to inform their friends and relatives):

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/changing-world-order-t32-15.htm#1520

[dz20854]

What's really sad is the lost trust.

A possibility from the story is that the plane passengers might still be alive and being held somewhere.

Let's call the police!

Wait... who will the police be working for?

[Shelby]

What's really sad is the lost trust.

A possibility from the story is that the plane passengers might still be alive and being held somewhere...

Trust? Who ever trusted govt? We should only trust God, not men. We are told in Bible that if we trust a King, then he will steal everything from us. Bible never told us to trust authority. People misinterpret Romans 13. Romans 13 does not tell us to trust the govt, it tells us to trust God's good power:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/biblical-f3/love-of-money-self-pleasure-and-false-prophets-in-end-times-t74.htm#1330

There is no chance those people are still alive. I am curious about the radar tracking of the plane as it left Dulles airport, seems plausible there was a switch of planes on radar (so easy it is to manipulate "software"!). A plausible answer is that the Flight 77 plane (with passengers) was quickly downed (after the switch on radar) in the mountains by a F15 missle. Or who knows, maybe even flown on to NORAD or other top secret base and exterminated there:

http://www.team8plus.org/the-movement/radar/flight_77.htm

...American 77 began deviating from its flight plan at 8:54, with a slight turn toward the south. Two minutes later, it disappeared completely from radar at Indianapolis Center, which was controlling the flight.138

The controller tracking American 77 told us he noticed the aircraft turning to the southwest, and then saw the data disappear. The controller looked for primary radar returns. He searched along the plane's projected flight path and the airspace to the southwest where it had started to turn. No primary targets appeared. He tried the radios, first calling the aircraft directly, then the air-line. Again there was nothing. At this point, the Indianapolis controller had no knowledge of the situation in New York. He did not know that other aircraft had been hijacked. He believed American 77 had experienced serious electrical or mechanical failure, or both, and was gone.139

The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.

According to the radar reconstruction, American 77 re-emerged as a primary target on Indianapolis Center radar scopes at 9:05, east of its last known position...

...Download and view the Flytecomm video from http://irvingshapiro.tripod.com/cgi-bin/Flight_93/crashother.avi. You will see that Flight 77 actually did reappear to the West. If this radar track (labelled by the FAA with the Flight 77 data block) is Flight 77, then it cannot have hit the Pentagon. The timeline simply does not allow it.

If you are unable to download the video you can view some screenshots and a timeline here..

If this is not Flight 77 then the only other explanation would be that the FAA somehow managed to either automatically or manually label another plane with as Flight 77. How could this happen? How could the controllers not have spotted that it was the wrong plane for such a long period? Why do the locations of this plane fit so tidily into Flight 77's flight path (the red dotted line in the video)?...

...The air traffic control sector that Flight 77 is shown flying through was using the secondary radar site labelled QHY-E. When the transponder was switched off this, in itself would cause the plane to disappear.

If the controller decided to try and find the plane using either of the two primary radar sites QWO-E and QRI-E he might also run into problems. Flight 77 is shown heading directly for the centre point between the two radar sites.

A relatively low flying plane would not be picked up at this point simply because of the distance from the radars and the curvature of the earth...

...This image shows the official flight path from the Commission Report superimposed onto the FAA map of the radar sites. Notice how the attackers used the radar layout to hide the plane for as long as possible. The white area is a mountainous region that is not covered by primary radar at all. The crinkled edges of the radar are caused by the mountains.

Notice also how the attackers came in through the least protected area around Washington D.C.

Ask yourself how they knew exactly where to turn and where to attack...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks#Flight_77

...Credibility is strained when Colonel Marr of NEADS asks us to believe afterwards that he had no tools available for his use on 9-11 when many of the pilots under his command had anticipated having to use their unarmed planes as air-to-air missiles. Marr had airborne fighters much closer to New York, in the New Jersey Pine Barrens, than the Otis fighters, yet we were asked to believe he was incapable of imagining an intercept. Marr asked us to believe refueling was an issue while knowing that refueling tankers are part of the daily training missions in his sector, were already airborne, and were under his command. Major Nasypany requested the launching of Langley fighters after the New York impacts and the request was denied, supposedly for refueling concerns. Marr very much asked us to believe his command of logistics awareness in his sector failed, also. Alert fighter response times were far greater than before and after 9-11. We were asked to believe the FAA failed to notify the military in time for adequate response, after the 9-11 Commission received testimony that 3 military liaisons were an acitve part of FAA Command Center response, and had direct communications capability to NORAD headquarters. The Commission never required the liaisons to testify. Barbara Riggs, then Deputy Director of the Secret Service stated: “Thru monitoring radar and activating an open line with the FAA, the Secret Service was able to receive real time information about other hijacked aircraft. We were
tracking two hijacked aircraft as they approached Washington, D.C.”...

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

...Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11...

...Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management...

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/cheney.html

...As the attack unfolded, news reports stated that Cheney had been whisked to a secret and secure location -- later revealed to be the Presidential Emergency Operating Center in the basement of the White House. Cheney was with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, directing the response to the attack. Or was he directing the attack? The testimony of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta is suggestive in this regard...

...MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"...

...had Cheney's order been to fire on the plane approaching the Pentagon (which first came near the White House), the anti-missile anti-aircraft capacity of the Pentagon (or White House), would have sufficed to take out that plane, and certainly to have attempted to take out that plane. Neither occurred...

And it appears that Cheney changed his story after this Mineta revelation:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9368 (too much to quote, just read the page)

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

...The fact that the plane was flying inches above the ground without causing damage to the lawn is amazing. It is near impossible to fly a commercial jet inches off the ground into the side of a building. You need to go slow with the flaps down etc. Try flying a flight simulator like that and see what happens. The supposed hijackers had minimal training on these jets and simply wouldn't have the skill....

No I think what happened is a dummy commercial airline (not same one as Flight 77) flew on the north side Columbia Pike, which is what everyone saw (flying slow and then flew over the Pentagon), then a supersonic-capable military plane (perhaps a stealth designed plane or missle that can't be seen on radar and very difficultly by nake eye also, i.e. painted sky blue on underside and green on top, both color painted objects were found on scene) or missle drone was flown a very high speeds from the south side of Columbia Pike. IMO, this is why the AWACS C-130 was seen in the area. No one would have noticed the supersonic thing at the point traveling at 500-600 miles per hour (just below speed of sound to avoid sonic boom), because 0.5 mile is covered in 3 seconds. The larger, slower, more noisy commercial jet would have captured their eye instead. Like a magicians illusion, he gets you to look at his left hand, while he is doing the switch with his right hand.

...You can see the path marker and the outline of the eye as well, if you look closely enough! See part of the problem was that they covered up the grass with dirt and stones so fast that there were so few pictures available of the Grass...

Satellite photo before 9-11:

Fast cleanup after 9-11:


Now look at the following and tell what is the likelihood of the fuselage staying in a perfect line to form that perfect hole in the inner 3rd ring wall, and also look at the other perfect hole higher up in the photo:




Evidence to debunk the conspiracy theory:

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/DNA_identification
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Pentagon (alleged photos of bodies from Flight 77, but how do we know?)

Counter logic to photos in above link:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread431355/pg8

the photos used in the trial,

The very same photos that do not put a single name to a single body? Yeah, sure, that's some real hard proof there, pteridine.

The photos could have been of people working in Pentagon:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9368

...125 Pentagon employees were killed...

Also I noticed that all the passengers were supposed to be in the back of the airplane, yet how can the alleged photos at link above, show someone strapped to a seat and why do the DNA maps show most of the DNA collected from the tip of the airplane?

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/American_Airlines_Flight_77_Timeline

...* (Some time between 9:16 and 9:26 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Barbara Olson makes a call about the hijacking

Barbara Olson, a Flight 77 passenger, called her husband, Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States. Olson spoke to his wife for about one minute before the call was cut off. She reported that the flight had been hijacked and the hijackers were wielding knives and box cutters. She did not mention stabbing or slashing of the crew or passengers. The hijackers, she said, were not aware of her phone call. All of the passengers were in the back of the plane. Barbara Olson had been seated in first class...

What is really strange to me, is with 60 people on board the plane, why would only 2 try to call loved ones? If I knew I was going to die, I would try to call and I think everyone would copy. Maybe because the others were discovered by the hijackers? But why would the hijackers care about phone calls? And could they really monitor 60 people huddled near back of plane? So many things don't make sense. The more plausible answer is that the plane was quickly downed in the mountains by a F15 missle. Look how long it took for them to find Fosset's downed plane in California.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10158

...When it was disclosed that cell phone calls from airliners at cruising altitudes were not feasible Olson changed his story. Barbara used a passenger seat phone he said and called him collect because she did not have her credit card. But in order to get a dial tone from an on board seat phone a credit card had to be scanned into the instrument.

If a credit card was not required for the collect call an operator or an automated caller had to contact the called party to authorize payment of the collect charges. Consequently a record of the call would be available. Similarly, if a cell phone somehow managed to get through a record of the length of the call in minutes chargeable to that particular cell phone number would likewise be recorded. Neither Ted Olson nor the Department of Justice was able to verify the cell phone calls or the collect calls with documented proof.

Government authorities concluded that Barbara Olson’s call from Flight 77 never happened. The calls to Ted Olson were fabricated, they said. His claim about receiving two calls from his wife aboard Flight 77 was not true and unless he was the victim of a hoax, he was lying.

These were strong charges against a high-level government official. Ted Olson was not a bit player in the Bush administration. On the contrary, as the U.S. Solicitor General he became the savior of the Republican party by arguing eloquently and successfully to the Supreme Court in 2001 to nullify the proposed recount of the questionable Florida election returns that resulted in awarding the presidency to George Bush...

A retired two star General from Army, who claims he was in charge of measuring Soviet equipment from photos in Cold War, says hole in Pentagon is not consistent with commercial airliner hit:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2FIZZIZf7b08G8VWs

Lyndon Larouche, who said on the day of 9/11, that is was "an inside job", explains the larger picture and how we are headed for WW3:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x664eh_ww3-and-great-depression-2-explaine_news

[dz20854]

DNA identification… Pentagon… Many of the remains were badly burned, but remains for all but five of the victims were identified. Remains were also found belonging to the five hijackers.

OK, so the theory is that the plane crashed elsewhere than at the Pentagon (perhaps even having been diverted earlier and a decoy flown over the Pentagon). Then charred bodies from the plane were later taken to and mixed in with rubble at the Pentagon, or secretly mixed in with samples sent for analysis? Sounds ghoulish. Also, if they were going to have the plane crash anyway, as well as damage at the Pentagon, why didn't the plane just crash into the Pentagon?

So this opens the possibility that the passengers are still alive. DNA samples (taken from passengers after a safe landing) would have been easy to obtain, if they even actually tested for any passengers' DNA at all.

Actually, the ONLY reason why the Pentagon and Pennsylvania planes wouldn't have ended up where they were said to have ended up, would have been to save the lives of the passengers. Think about it.

[Shelby]

Before I respond to your point, let me make the point that the military already has computer controlled flying where they can fly a fighter jet or a missle a few feet above the "treetops" (the computer makes adjustments in real time to the terrain ahead), so they could have flown a missle in over the rooftops, near to the commercial jet, then even over the miles of approach, I don't think any one would have seen it (because as soon as you see it, it is already not visible, because it flys a few feet over your head...even at distance you could not likely see it as it flying so close to rooftops it is being blocked by other taller objects in the vicinity, plus moving so fast and relatively small and stealth camouflaged). This capability also used to avoid radar. I know this because I researched how to avoid radar by flying close the ground, when I was researching ultra-lights for my own potential use in future (personal safety). Alternatively, it is also possible that explosive devices were pre-planted at the Pentagon. As for planting explosives, remember 3 buildings fell in New York, one of them wasn't even hit by an airplane.

...Also, if they were going to have the plane crash anyway, as well as damage at the Pentagon, why didn't the plane just crash into the Pentagon?...

That would be way too risky, because of the low height of the Pentagon and the extremely challenging flight path, you had to either have a radio controlled piloting or a military pilot, the muslim hijackers could never be relied on to accomplish that. The hijackers could barely pilot the Cessna in flight school. So the risk was that given the were not going to implode the entire Pentagon into rubble (it isn't tall enough to pulverize everything), that recovery effort could end up identifying that the hijackers were not piloting the plane. Even the radio control or military pilot was having trouble holding the plane level close to ground as the witnesses in the video testified (and the plane was not a few feet from ground). Do you realize that something with as much mass as a 757, has too much inertia (relative to thrust) to fly within a few feet of the ground at the DESCENT (not flying level for a long time as at a landing strip) speeds claimed in the official report? Maybe you can do it with a computer controlled F15, but not a commercial 757. With the twin towers, even if they did have the planes on radio pilot, there is not much chance any one will ever find out, because pretty much everything was pulverized when they imploded the 2 buildings.

Remember this thing was planned with military precision. There is no way a military planners lets inexperienced hijackers try an impossible maneuver to skim a lawn and fly a 757 a few feet off the ground. ZERO CHANCE.

The thing to realize is that in a normal crash like that, the parts of the plane would be strewn all over. The pulverization that happen is not physically possible. So understand that if they did crash a 757 into it, a lot more evidence would have been collected. That is simply too risky. I think it would have been very risky trying to afix radio control equipment to an American Airlines airplane, as their mechanics and service crew may have noticed. Do you really think they can find a pilot with military experience willing to commit suicide in this world? Think about it, military flight school is highly vetted and prestigious all over the world.

The easiest thing to do is to let the hijackers fly the plane out into the mountains, then shoot it down. There were exercises going on that day involving all of the military simulating hijackings by terrorists. So getting it shot down would be relatively easy. Or simply have a military pilot land it at NORAD or other secret base could have been part of the hijacking simulation.

As for the mixing of the DNA, I suspect that was switched as it was brought from scene to lab. I suspect the body parts found at Pentagon were of the 125 who worked there and were killed. Goulish? Not so much (I bet we will see much worse in coming years), as compared to what they (Precott Bush) helped to organize in Hilter's Germany or even the torture experiments done by Japanese in WW2 where they do experiments like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation
http://listverse.com/2008/03/14/top-10-evil-human-experiments/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation

It simply isn't likely that the hijackers flew that plane in the Pentagon a few feet off the ground. They could barely fly Cessna's in training. The alleged hijacker pilot of Flight 77 was reported as not being fit for his pilot's license, his capabilities were so poor.

Then on top of that, add that 13 eye witnesses corroborated that the airplane they saw, flew to north of Columbia Pike, which makes it impossible to make the angle of damage observed inside the building, because the angle of approach was different from the official report.

So there is no way that plane hit that building. Not unless 13 eye witnesses are lying or hallucinating, and then you still have the problem of who had the talent to pilot that and commit suicide and still the problem of how did such a big plane get pulverized when in other similar crashes into buildings they have not.

Why did they undertake such a risky operation (the Pentagon target)? I think because it was necessary in order to galvanize the military to support the "War on Terror". It is the most significant IDOL of the military. Remember the Illumati are into false IDOLs, as the following of false idols against the 2nd Commandment and refusal of mankind to come out of the Great Harlot (idol) system, is what gives the cabal their power. Without the false idols, they would have no power. They know this.

[Shelby]

http://911exposed.org/DebrisStaged.htm

They have photos showing how debris magically appeared where is wasnt in earlier photos!



Witness reports and tidbits:

http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html#pentagon


=============

http://www.911-strike.com/quantum-path.htm

...If (as the official story claims) Arab terrorists were responsible for the attack, their choice of this flight path is very surprising. They could have made a much more operationally safe approach from a steeper angle and hit somewhat higher into the building. However, if the perpetrators were government-connected intelligence agencies who needed to provide some evidence that a 757 struck the Pentagon (in spite of a lack of actual aircraft debris) then the low flight path makes perfect sense, allowing for the explanation of the presence of the engine 'footprints' (see Probst Witness Account) on the retaining wall and the chain link fence, as well as the starboard wing's interesting (the alleged flap actuator gash on the generator roof) impact with the generator. If the "terrorists" had not been so obliging with their approach angle then the engine footprints of a 757 could not be observed, leaving the real perpetrators without this evidence of a "757 strike" to support their hoax. A few inches higher and the retaining wall is intact, a few inches lower and the engine impacts the ground...

http://www.911-strike.com/siding-scam.htm

...And early on it was claimed that the 757's nose had been responsible for the large 'punchout' in the back of the C ring (despite the fire consuming the aluminum). Sarah Roberts showed a photograph of something purporting to be from the nose cone, found at this punchout. However, this is in total disagreement with Sugano and Purdue. After 300 feet of travel through the floor slab and all the columns, and the facade the material that had traveled that far should be shredded and diffracted considerably over a much wider area such as not to produce a hole this specific size and shape. A nice egress hole has psychological import: this evidence eliminates the need to show damage to each and every wall of rings E, D, and C...

http://www.911-strike.com/siding-scam.htm

...# Perpetrators just happen to hit the two floors which are contiguously covered all the way to the back of the C Ring. No extra wall holes to fake.
# Perpetrators just happen to hit supposedly newly 'reinforced' section of Pentagon also hiding behind two contractor's trailers.
# Leftmost contractor's trailer was largest source of fire outside of the building.
# British AMEC has first Wedge only renovation contract.
# AMEC completes contract on prior Friday (ostensibly 9/11 is 5 days before re-occupancy), conveniently gets cleanup contract due to on site presence.
# AMEC contracts for BP and Shell offshore oil platforms, BP now owns ARCO of which GHWB was reputed a major shareholder.
# AMEC was one of 4 companies to run the WTC cleanup and they ran the barge operation.
# Pentagon casualties consist of large numbers of military electronics technicians, a special ops personnel officer, high level operational planning officers, and several civilian, female, black budget analysts.
# 9/11 casualties included numerous guidance avionics (BAES - British Aerospace and Electronics Systems), and propulsion (Boeing) experts...

[Shelby]

*When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we
shall become as corrupt as Europe.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?FLI9InKMrjvK-MMDsS028hSk2MITmvYLwITmvQMmrHfWpf9AWGXghZRR6VEVhuhU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdECPhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?arX2r5XI6QTXLIc9Tdw0y4tB0IbdRD_bUbdRDZc5CWP-CjOpeGKQ4vtthjjuuhU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdFCPhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A
principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?1jvojoLtwSC_tZxxeVI04gzIE5xpKI_Vv1pKI_FwITmvQOuj9RlSwzXHGbbzbNEVU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdICPhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?1jvojoLtwSC_tZxxeVI04gzIE5xpKI_Vv1pKI_FwITmvQOuj9RlSwzXHGbbz2d-U76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdI6PhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>**
*
**
*My reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2C-MCNuX1Jd-XX32tPo0by4tB0IbdRD_bUbdRDZc5CWP-CjOpeGKQ4vtthv79FTU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdLCPhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2C-MCNuX1Jd-XX32tPo08x7pgb2Ptp_O-2Ptp_j1pKI_FAYCjGHJ17TnkkTXzDeU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdK6PhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and
bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?5dZxdyZS3qrZTS64XCM0h2eOwm5CWP_BY5CWP-C2Ptp_j9VcDlnq2fKKETKqejhOzMedTWZQTQT1Pz29KVKx1Kca0EhSRi5fxqIajyTqsGMVsSC-Y-YOrhjpd7abbwVNASCedyU2F6y0bRc6y12i1Ew0zTnvziI3h0lxkMidPYfDyN-Owr76PhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriots and tyrants.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?kTS4SbTodFLTvoojKr0148Xa1omrHf-nMmrHfWobdRDZcDAOtltE8-WWzsQsELnU76XZuWrWrwVNx4TsTgwT650k8XqF2DMJm59NrJelosKrjvuvupdEFICzB5BMsUOrj76Ns1kzh05WC3h0x90Qg0hXHLNFm1EwaMGo96V-7PNo_pgdL6PhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas
which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
**/Thomas Jefferson/
<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2C-MCNuX1Jd-XX32tPo08x7pgb2Ptp_O-2Ptp_j1pKI_FAYCjGHJ17TnknNOr3D0UTvHTjvjs7ec8CXCW46UME2x7rl8k-5GMFebtFOH3BPqrXPXP9J5dAQsEIK3D6jqoUSbwaAq80LkMq84986y02ftt-daMd41m5j18TfM-ub7Xa1IQsCPhOrjvK-MOeudzeEr>*
**
*Thomas Jefferson said in **_1802_**:*
***

*/'I believe that banking institutions are _more dangerous to our
liberties_ than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow
up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their
children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered..'/*
*
*
*'If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the
newspaper you are misinformed.'
-Mark Twain***

[Jim]

Great quotes!

Thanks, Shelby.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Shelby]

http://static.ning.com/socialnetworkmain/widgets/video/flvplayer/flvplayer.swf?v=4.9.2%3A25489

[Shelby]

You should let eveyone you know listen to this. It gets very interesting from the 10 minute point forward:

http://www.modavox.com/voiceamerica/vepisode.aspx?aid=41125

Jay's radio site has many interesting interviews.

He says they already owned 25% of world in 1910, so imagine what % they own now? He says they are close to 100% by now:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/precious-metals-f6/silver-as-an-investment-t33-195.htm#2030

...Concerning the "US sitizen", i.e. the corporation and the natural citizen, the problem is you can't do anything, can even drive on roads if don't subjugate yourself to that corporate citizenship...

I just realized something very big! I have been wondering since 2007 why the PTB needed to get Congress to enact the $700 billion bailout, when they already had the power to print as much $ as they wanted with the Fed. It finally hit me after revisting the issue of free sovereign individual "citizen of 50 United States" versus the slave "United States citizen". Reading the detailed links in that prior post, I remember that the Constitution gave the Federal corporation "United States" the power to acquire land:

http://deoxy.org/lib/a1s8c17.htm

The Congress shall have power:

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten square miles) as may, by cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock yards, and other needful buildings; - And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

I had noted that Chris Mortenson calculated the Fed had purchased all the mortgages sold in 2009 ($458 billion).

So folks, perhaps the Fed has no intention of ever giving up title to the mortgages contained in those derivatives! If the federal govt will end up owning all your neighbors real estate, in effect you won't be able to move as a sovereign individual without trespassing!

Now the revolution is coming into focus. Americans are going to wake to find that they no longer own most of their land, and it has all been sold to the federal govt which will be owned by the Chinese! The state govts will cater (with it goes sovereign assess to state and local road systems). China does not care what happens to the value of their Treasury notes, as they are now backed by all our real estate on the Fed's balance sheet.

BANG! GAME OVER! CHECKMATE! MASSIVE REVOLUTION with the sovereign individuals being cornered and jailed as they tresspass. The impoverished masses will be given federal housing and support the jailing of the sovereign rebels!

It is hard to even fathom now how severe the coming Revolution will be. Everything and everyone is going to be uprooted. Even you own your land in full without debt, you are surrounded, or your community is surrounded. CHECKMATE. The bankers have won. You are sitting ducks.

[Shelby]

He Who Owns The Right Of Way...

...makes the rules.

I have been wondering why the Fed needed the Congress to authorize bailouts, when they could already create money at will.

It is key to understand that under the Constitution, the three branches of the federal government were not given any power to pass legislation except in support of a very narrow set of powers given to Congress in Article 1, Section 8, giving jurisdiction over matters shared by but outside of the States. This was re-affirmed in Amendments 9 and 10. Thus, the Constitution did not need to distinguish between citizenship of the States and of the federal jurisdiction, because there was no negative consequences at the time these were all positive benefits of additional rights and "immunity". However, Congress was granted exclusive legislation over all territories acquired by the federal government in clause 17 of Section 8.

And with the 14th amendment, Congress was given the power to legislate to force the naturally born to be liable for the debt of the federal government. And with the 16th admendment (ratification disputed), the federal government was given the power to directly tax individual incomes. There was a 61 year gap from the 12th to these series of admendments that are inconsistent with the 9th amendment, given the 9th made it clear that the purpose of the Constitution was to enumerate existing rights and not to deny or disparage any rights the people already had.

Clearly per Article 1, Section 8, clause 17, the Constitutional power of the federal government to enact legislation that can not be challenged by the States, exists within any territory ceded by the States to the federal government, which have been purchased by the federal government, and approved by Congress. I think we should be searching now for hard evidence that the States (begging for bailouts) are being forced to cede jurisdiction over all mortgages now owned by (on the balance sheet of) the federal government or central bank.

Chris Mortenson recently calculated that the Fed has been buying the equivalent dollar value of all the mortgages that have been sold in 2009. It seems to me that once the federal government owns all the real estate surrounding you (or your community), you will not be able to trespass without acceding to any exclusive legislation the federal government may deem appropriate. Perhaps there is no intent to ever unload this real estate back to the private sector. The welfare state will politically support this, with federalization of housing.

The land of the States may be vast, but I suppose we are approaching much greater than 50% to be owned by the federal government, central bank, corporations, and by the wealthiest. Americans will likely soon wake up to see that they are trespassing and enslaved in the vast land they thought was impervious to foreign invasion.

[Shelby]

Published:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2009/1012b.html

I guess I just turned up the fear knob a bit. The article makes me shudder.

[Jim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV71-queH1o

[Shelby]

Extremely Urgent: Copenhagen treaty must be stopped at Senate or NWO is done deal!

http://www.infowars.com/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty-claims-british-lord/#

"...But I will say one thing; they know, in the White House, that they won’t be able to get the 67 votes in the Senate, the two-thirds majority that your Constitution has stipulated must be achieved in order to ratify a treaty of this kind. However, what they’ve worked out is this – and they actually let it slip during the election campaign, which is how I know about it. They plan to enact that Copenhagen treaty into legislation by a simple majority of both houses. That they can do. But the virtue of that – and here you have a point – is that is, thank God, reversible. So I want you to pray tonight, and pray hard for your Senate that they utterly refuse to ratify the [new] Treaty of Copenhagen, because if they refuse to ratify it and [Obama] has to push it through as domestic legislation, you can repeal it..."

This is the implementing treaty for the NWO government. This will be signed in less than 3 weeks!

[skylick]

America will be beat down by the NWO. If they succeed, no other militants will bother them...save a few nasty afghans. Time is very short, but we all know this. Can you all sleep at night with the level of protection you have in place for you and yours? I have spent time and treasure, lately, to prepare multiple places to "hang", in multiple countries. I know it will not be enough, but I have done something. Maybe it eases the burden of guilt for having done nothing, when it hits the fan.

[Guest]

author: Andrew

http://goldmeasures.com/2009/07/famous-last-words.html

"Alan Bollard reserve back governor of New Zealand said on 14th July 09: "Early signs of global recovery have now emerged. We have avoided a repeat of the Great Depression,"

That sounds like a famous quote in the making, and this week AMP Capital Investors head of investment strategy, Jason Wong said "It has been a pretty mild recession in New Zealand," and "On balance, we think the recession is pretty much over,".

Could the above quotes become famous (or infamous) like these statements made not long after the crash of 1929:

"Financial storm definitely passed."
- Bernard Baruch, cablegram to Winston Churchill, November 15, 1929

"I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism... I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress."
- Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929

"I am convinced that through these measures we have re-established confidence."
- Herbert Hoover, December 1929

"...there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over..."
- Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930

"While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst -- and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us."
- Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930
"...by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent..."
- HES May 17, 1930

In the New Zealand context of this global recession why do people think a problem 36 years in the making will be over in 1-2 years?"

He Who Owns The Right Of Way...

[Guest]

I know it will not be enough, but I have done something.

What have you done? May I ask...

I am prepared to transfer all my wealth to a different country and people who will follow, God willing...

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