Inflation or Deflation?

http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/global_banking/special_alert-looming_u.s._exchange_controls_20090330116/

Do not spare any expediency in getting any money out of USA that you will want out!

There is an option to turn off the newsletter in your forum membership account control panel.

I probably won't be sending any more newsletters, as there isn't much point.

I have been waiting all week to read what SRSrocco is promising to write about in the Hommel forum, regarding how to prosper in this coming time within the USA. I want to see if he has any scenarios or ideas that I haven't thought out. As I understand his philosophy, he believes the USA must return to local production, due to forces of economics and peak oil. Well I think peak oil is nonsense, and the PTB are simply trying to kill oil (as plentiful and cheap enough to support decentralized living) and move the people into cities with nuclear power and centralized energy paradigms as much as possible. Besides, I don't see how the small rural hamlets plays out realistically. Roving starving masses could render that unsurvivable. Rather the govt will provide for those in the cities. Everyone will be drawn into the cities for survival and dependence. We will receive aid from China in the cities.

Either the current crooks will back down with mass uprising, or I am correct that majority is too far indebted to be pull their own bootstraps, and will side with the govt aid. In which case (near certainty), you are going to see (rather subdued or muted) "war" in USA which crushes the "revolution" (the minority who want capitalism). I would prefer to watch it on CNN from abroad.

It is really pointless to spin the wheels on bullion ownership, when the entire nation will be walled off and rot in fascist socialism, fully supported by a dependent majority. It seems so familiar to what little I know about Wiemer Germany, in that the people were unable to choose any other option due to the economic hardship of the WW1 reparations, then as Hitler (charismatic leader, a "harmless" painter) came to power people first become intoxicated in their own emotion of illogical hope (nothing to support that hope other than desperation), and then later people went into further denial ("ah but he isn't targetting me"). Eventually the system came for everyone and destroyed everyone, but it happened in such stages as above and seems like the USA is on a very similar path and circumstances.

I doubt it will reach genocide, rather Bush already told you the outcome,. "you are either for us, or you are against us". So 15 - 20% will be against and will be exterminated. Not quite a genocide, but horrific nonetheless. However, I lean towards the outcome that not many of these 15% will be put in concentration camps, nor killed, but rather will wise up and lay low. I see higher probability of a much more muddled form of fascism, because the resistance will not be that great, because Americans are old. The young generation is compliant to the socialism.

So when Jesse Ventura says "don't start the revolution without me", I say "what revolution?". It will be a whimper for the most part. Most of the anger is diffuse on many side emotions, e.g. "immigration", etc.. This will be grumpling under the breath for the most part, not proactive revolution.

The silver and gold bugs will bury their metal for a long time or hand it over the govt in the form of very high capital gains taxes, and further taxes on anything they reinvest in with proceeds. Capital will be trapped inside a rotting socialism economy for decades.

I can relate to the older age phenomenon. I am worn out from trying to find some way to battle that tidal wave. I feel lucky that I am already outside the USA and apparently have an option to move my capital outside safely (still not sure yet). I see that most people simply have to tune out from this message, because it simply not workable for them, especially at their age. And again, I point back to what happened in Weimer Germany, in that the result was caused by people having not other realistic options and delaying their flight to the end. At the very end, afaik only a few escaped with gold carried out.

What are the other possibilities? Could the a small force of 15% cause change? Well not as long as they are spread out all over the country and divided and wasting time on nuismatics and small bullion premiums, stocks and other trivial nonsense. If these people gather into one state of small population, and were then a force that could enact a state's rights and stand up the Federal govt (force the constitutional issue of a republic), well then we would have a real revolution and war. Develop a state bullion currency with sufficient economy-of-scale to render the premiums naught. But who is going to fight? You guys are mostly older than me, and I barely young enough to physically fight. My physical strength is declining (mid 40s).

Any other realistic possible outcome?

I really don't see the masses doing anything other than support the govt, because they are dependent. Those will any wealth have to convert it to non-paper and move it out of the country, or be consumed by the tidal wave trend.

The youth will support this because they have no capital, and the new order will enable them to travel abroad under Chinese sponsorship and have an "exciting international job". Or be involved in some "community service" govt job domestically. They will be not as free as we were, but they wont know or care. As long as they have their TV, computer, and cell phone, they will be contented enough.

The govt (majority) seems determined to outlaw small scale farming and survival modes. The majority simply won't tolerate capitalism or decentralization. The black hole of dependence and centralization must suck in everything until it kills itself (Revelations precisely).

Weee, 666 here we come:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Meltdown-101-What-G20-leaders-apf-14842134.html;_ylt=Ap1za7IGfV.kZx5Lgp9OuHW7YWsA?sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD

...WHAT THEY SAID: "The era of banking secrecy is over."

WHAT THEY MEANT: The G-20 agreed to work together to shut down global tax havens where investors hide their assets, depriving their home countries of billions of dollars in tax revenues. However, remains to be seen whether small countries that have benefited for years by operating such havens will respond to the increased pressure for more transparency...

Think AngloFarEast.com 's numbered accounts system will be able to stand up to this pressure? You think GoldMoney.com won't end up being forced to comply with US taxes if you are a US citizen? You think that bullion in your house can ever be traded back for any thing without being taxed?

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51537#post51537

Steve, I agree that reducing visibility and simplifying ones daily needs is one of the best defenses. That essentially what I am planning to do in Asia.

I also agree that city might be "safer", but in a zombie/control/draconian sort of way that would make me prefer to ride it out in rural setting. Also I am happy to read you are at 6500 feet. I thought you had written previously, that you were at base of a mountain. I think the higher the terrain, the better you natural defense, because humans follow laws of natural efficiency and will pick the low hanging fruit first. Be careful, your location can be traced via your IP address.

Do you or anyone know anything about growing fish in a pond using waste product of animals for feed?

Shelby - Here is some regarding feeding animal waste to fish. It should be relevant to your tropical situation in the Phillipines.

2.7 FEEDING ANIMAL WASTES TO FISH
Intensive fish cultures, although a relatively new development, are rapidly expanding in developing countries. Feeding animal wastes to fish is an old practice; and the mechanism of manurefish recycling is illustrated in Figure 3.


Figure 3 — Manure-fish recycling

Table 72
RECYCLING PIG WASTE TO CATTLE AND PIGS

Species/classes Average annual feed consumption
(kg) Level of pig waste fed Estimated number of pigs required per animal1
% kg
Dairy cow 5,110 10 511 3.5
Beef cow 4,380 30 1,314 9.0
Beef finishing (i) 2,550 15 383 2.6
(ii) 2,550 20 510 3.5
Growing cattle (200 kg wt.) 2,190 15 329 2.3
Pig, gifts 913 25 228 1.6
growing pigs 730 15 110 0.8

1 Assumes 146 kg of pig waste (DM) per year.

New advances indicate that by controlling the rate of inflow of nutrients from animal wastes, it is possible to achieve optimum conditions for fast-growing fish in warm climates. Tropical and silver carp, catfish and Tilapia are the most popular, and their potential for utilizing animal wastes is enormous. Thus, for example Durham et al. (1966), who fed catfish in heavily overstocked ponds, replaced 50% of conventional feeds (grain and cottonseed cake) by feedlot manure. Ponds stocked with almost 60,000 fish per ha produced annually a net gain of 8.25 tonnes of fish biomass. There was no difference between yields from conventionally fed ponds and fish fed rations with 50% feedlot manure. Meyers (1977), in intensive aquaculture in Israel, fed cattle manure into fish ponds at daily rates of 250–400 litre/tonne of fish biomass, increasing fish production ten times (from 0.5 tonne to 5 tonnes per ha).

Other experiments of Meyers (1977) involving the use of cattle manure supplemented with chemical fertilizers are summarized in Table 73. The yields of common carp and Tilapia indicate that the potential of livestock manure in fish production is of great magnitude.

Table 73
GROWTH OF FISH IN MANURED PONDS1
(110 days)

Parameter Unit Common Tilapia Silver carp
Stocking rate No/ha 5,000 6,000 500
Initial size of fish (g) 20 50 30
Size of fish at harvest (g) 500 300 800
Total amount of harvest (kg/ha) 2,500 1,500 400
Calculated harvest per year (kg/ha) 8,295 4,977 1,327

1 Manure added five times per week, supplemented with superphophate (20%P) and ammonium (20% N) at 60 kg/ha/2 weeks.

Source: Meyers, 1977.

Meyer's research showed that about 45% of the cellulose decomposed within 2 weeks and that the celluloytic activity correlated positively with the increase of bacterial biomass.

Catfish cultures are also becoming very popular in the United States. Maximum gains of catfish are at 30°C, but good results are also obtained when the temperature varies between 26 to 34°C. Countries with tropical and subtropical climates have, in this respect, a great potential. Typical examples are Thailand and Philippines, where catfish production is integrated with livestock generating manure as the only source of feed for fish (see Section 2.1.4.1).

The nutrient requirements of catfish are generally much higher than those of broilers, and the high nutrient content of livestock manures can offer even more as fish feed than as broiler feed (see Table 74). The cost of these nutrients, which can be just the manure alone, is virtually zero. Moreover, the feed conversion ratio is similar in both fish and broiler feeding (1:2.5), if not even better for the fish species.

Table 74
NUTRIENTS REQUIREMENTS OF BROILERS AND CATFISH,
AND NUTRIENTS IN ANIMAL WASTES

Constituent Unit Nutrient requirements Composition of animal wastes (range)
Catfish1 Broiler2
Crude Protein % 25 23–18 18 – 42
Calcium % 1.4–1.5 0.9 0.6 – 8.0
Phosphorus % 0.9–1.0 0.7 0.5 – 3.0
Methionine % 0.52 0.52–0.32 0.2 – 0.6
Methionine+Cystine % 0.85 0.93–0.60 0.6 – 1.0
Lysine % 1.33 1.20–0.85 0.7 – 1.3
Arginine % 1.48 1.44–1.00 0.8 – 1.9
Tryptophan % 0.3 0.23–0.17 -
Threonine % 0.5 0.75–0.56 0.6 – 0.9
Valine % 0.5 0.82–0.62 -
Vitamin A IU/kg 22,000 1,500 2,000–15,000
Riboflavin ppm 9 3.6 4 – 12
Pantothenic acid ppm 28 10 12 – 28
Niacin ppm 124 27 40 –120
Choline ppm 1,537 1,300 -
Vitamin B12 ppm 23 9 100 – 1,000
Folic Acid ppm 0.64 0.55 -

Sources:1 Deyoe and Tiemeier, 1968;
2 NRC, 1977.

lllinois scientists (Buck et al., 1976) were apparently the first to utilize some Asian fish culture techniques in the USA to solve problems of animal wastes management, pollution control, and protein production. Their experiment was carried out in two ponds of similar size with nearby identical stockings of four Asian fish species and three native American species with differing amounts of pig manure. The first pond received the total waste from five growing pigs (about 39 pigs/ha of water area), the second pond received the waste from eight pigs (66 pigs/ha). The net increments in fish biomass over 170 days period were 2,971 and 3,834 kg/ha in the two ponds. The authors attributed the high fish biomass yield to the high plane of pig nutrition, a fortuitous choice of a fish stocking ratio, and effective water level management.

According to the estimates of Thai farmers, one pig generates enough manure to support the “direct feed” requirement of the fish, while the water-soluble inorganic nutrients of the manure fertilize the ponds, thus supporting the growth of algae, bacteria, and lower and higher aquatic plants.

From calculations obtained from Kamchai (10,000 pigs) and Praves (4,000 pigs), it appears that the manure from one pig produces about 20 to 38 kg of fish biomass per year. In Philippines, Eusebio (1976), in a small pilot pond with a closed recycling cycle, achieved 32.6 kg of biomass per pig at a somewhat lower production per area (587 kg/ha). The usual yields of fish ponds in Philippines and Thailand are about 1.2 tonnes/ha, manure being the only source of feed and nutrient supply for photosynthesis of aquatic plants and bacteria.

Some farmers in Asia build poultry cages or pig pens on a wooden platform above a fish pond; poultry or pig manure (or both), together with spilled feed, fall directly into the pond, where it is consumed by the fish. This system is very practical: no cleaning of poultry and pig house is necessary, and poultry or pigs situated above the fish pond enjoy an excellent air circulation which has a significant cooling effect for laying birds, particularly sensitive to heat stress; the same applies to pigs. This system, in terms of livestock waste management, increases the profit derived from fish and totally eliminates the pollution problem.

It is estimated that one laying hen (or weight equivalent of other classes of poultry) will produce enough manure to generate about 6–8 kg/year of fish biomass.

It can be concluded that fish cultures are an excellent outlet, closing circularly integrated recycling systems without further pollution discharge. This is even more true when fish ponds can be switched over to cropping every second year, a system quite commonly used in Asia. This practice supports both high production of disease-free fish and high crop yields.

Manure derived from individual, confined livestock species (annually) can support the following annual production range of fish biomass:

Manure from Fish biomass production (kg)
One dairy cow 100–220
One beef cattle 90–160
One sheep 10– 17
One pig 15 – 40
One laying hen 6 – 8
One replacement bird 4 – 5
One broiler 3 – 4
One turkey 7 – 8

The conversion ratio of manure to fish biomass is related to numerous factors, particularly the fish species, climatic conditions and pond water management.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Randy, especially the idea of building the pen above the pond.


For sure there will be riots and massive upset of daily life in parts of USA. One question is whether any violence will affect you in your local area.

The reason I am so sure the people with wealth will be attacked (passively/tax or violently/theft), is because the only way the masses can not have their lives reduced to immediate poverty (delaying the worse result in the end), is by stealing from someone. In the past, they've been passively stealing from 3rd World, via the strong dollar ponzi system backed up by the US military and CIA. This kept abusive families on top in 3rd world, and kept the 3rd world enslaved to steal the resources from the 3rd world and give them to the masses in USA.

Have you not noticed that Westerners are the most passively aggressive culture in history of man? All the bad habits grow exponentially, but a non-confrontational manner. It is incideous. But at some point this pent up passive aggressiveness can turn to blazing volcano eruption of overt aggressiveness. Or the passive stealing must continue to grow exponentially.

With the 3rd world now moving to more economic freedom and their own middle class, the USA masses no longer have the developing world to steal from. The Yuan peg has reached it's point of diminishing return. The USA masses can not support their habits themselves, as the country has been drained of all productive capacity and the govt has become 70 - 90% of the economy. These masses will look to the govt for support.

So the only place left to steal from are the people of net worth WITHIN the USA. This is why Celente says there will be a tax revolt.

So of course there will be war within the USA between the haves and have nots. What form this demise takes is really the only variable in my mind. Nevertheless, whether it is violent or passive, the end result is same in that the haves will give up their savings to the have nots (by force if necessary). Some will find a way to bury metal for a long time and wait for new dawn, and this will have varying degrees of success and failure. In any case, all this capital will sit and rot and not be able to participate in the coming boom in developing world (the final push before Revelations final end game). Many will die from old age with their capital still buried and their children getting older without benefit of the capital.

I think the masses will win for a long time, with the size of govt growing every more, until the entire thing slides over a decade into a broken country, with no food, no production, and no economic activity. In short, the USSR again. Because of the masses and their habits and pyschology. The 20% of america that is still good and sane, will be trapped by the 50% that is addicted to an unproductive life. Humans are a creature of habit. Just try to get a friend to change their habits to convince yourself that habits die hard.

http://jasonhommelforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=51547#post51547

So the GOLD and SILVER BUGS just have to sit there and WATCH GROWN MEN act like CHILDREN hoping no one notices their LIES. It does get frustrating....but we have to remember......PAPER can't pay down DEBT....only GOLD and SILVER.

The Kings and their operatives at Treasury know that too Steve.

They will trap the metal in west, with the govt growing to 100% of economy, the masses paid to prevent all productive investment. Tax will cancer the economy over decades to drag it down.

The final investment paradigm will developing world, the Kings need to bring the billions down from the farms and on to the credit ponzi system. Metals will be valueable outside the west, as they can be invested in this coming 30 year boom.

Then after 30 years, total world domination will be achieved, and then metals will be useless every where, and as Revelations predicts, we will throw our gold into street to avoid being persecuted worldwide.

The paying down of the debt will occur by devaluing the west relative to the developing world (which holds the debt). The ownership of west will transfer to Kings (who control the developing world also). The metal will be useless on any large scale in west (black market will be small and dangerous). Large scale investment opportunities will exist in developing world until the peak for the world is achieved some 30 years from now.


Let me ask you this? What would drive any growth in USA? The X-generation? They will service the developing world, but mostly by exporting themselves or in high tech work domestically (i.e. low multiplier in the local economy). Most will be on govt stipend, those who do work will support the majority who work for the govt to suppress all investment in the homeland.

Look to Europe as a model. This is more or less what happened to Europe, but we will see it more intense now, because we are further now from when the world on a gold money standard. The ponze fiat ratios are much more extreme this time as compared to 1930s. We didn't have a QUADRILLION of derivatives then. QUADRILLION is a big ponzi balloon. First time ever in world.

What is the alternative perspective? Does developing world need the west to complete reset, before developing world can grow on? I think not.

> I am understanding this. Peter Schiff has spoken/written about how US has
> used borrowed money to consume, rather than produce. And that the US is
> the "caboose" of the world economic train, rather than the "engine". That
> there will be a decoupling of US from developing world as their middle
> class
> emerges, and they (developing world) will want to consume their own goods,
> as opposed to living'
> in poverty and allowing US to buy goods at low prices.

Yes.

And the masses in 3rd world where forcely held back by the US military and CIA making sure that only the hacienda families could have any power in the 3rd world, and helped enforce and manage the theft from the 3rd world over the past decades.

The Philippines was once the richest country in Asia with silver coin money and a higher per capital wealth than Japan. Perhaps that was calculated only for the people in Manila, not the country as whole. Philippines only had million inhabitants in early 1900s, now close to 100 million.

The Kings (cabal) are now ready to do the same to developing world, that they did to USA. Won't take 80 years. Maybe 30. USA destruction did not take as long as Rome. The reason is information moves faster and faster. It has only taken 15 years to put a TV in every place in Philippines, and to transform the youth to western aspirations (credit, materialism, style, rap music, etc). The kids that were born when I first came to Phils, are nearly universally indoctrinated to pursue the western pattern of spiritual decay (ahem I mean "growth").

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/flash-update-80?

To the extent that this morning’s (April 9th) Census Bureau report of a sharp narrowing in the February U.S. trade deficit can be believed, it suggests that U.S. demand (reflected in imports) is slowing faster than demand in the rest of the world (reflected in exports). On a seasonally-adjusted basis, U.S. monthly purchases from the rest of the world (imports) fell by 5.1% in February, while U.S. sales to the rest of the world (exports) actually increased by 1.6%...

Also I recommend reading this if you lost money lately:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dorn/2009/0409.html

Returned from driving trip. Philippines is booming like I never seen before. Construction every where like mad.

Someone asked me what would be the point of capital controls. Rather than let dollars escape and compete with Asia for commodities, trapping the dollars inside the USA will create a bubble (or sustain) in real estate and services, as that is all the USA produces.

I imagine silver skyrocketing later this year, as world becomes aware that Asia will de-couple (commodities bubble renewed) and USA will sink into monetary crisis (monetary flight going bezerk). Mainstream westerners will finally realize they are the cabboose.

What is happening is the centralization of ownership of the USA economy. Who has the $12 trillion? The big banks, the Fed. Those dollars won't leave the country, they just dilute the savings of middle class within the domestic economy, i.e. Keep the real estate propped up, but ownership will transfer from the middle class. America will become a debt-servitude economy.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9922

...In January of 2009, an online publication of the Wall Street Journal, called Market Watch, discussed the possibility of hyperinflation of the United States dollar, and then stated, regarding the possibility of an amero, “On its face, while difficult to imagine, it makes intuitive sense. The ability to combine Canadian natural resources, American ingenuity and cheap Mexican labor would allow North America to compete better on a global stage.” The author further states that, “If forward policy attempts to induce more debt rather than allowing savings and obligations to align, we must respect the potential for a system shock. We may need to let a two-tier currency gain traction if the dollar meaningfully debases from current levels,” and that, “If this dynamic plays out -- and I've got no insight that it will -- the global balance of powers would fragment into four primary regions: North America, Europe, Asia and the Middle East. In such a scenario, ramifications would manifest through social unrest and geopolitical conflict.”...

...A Global Currency - The Phoenix

In 1988, The Economist ran an article titled, Get Ready for the Phoenix, in which they wrote, “THIRTY years from now, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, and people in many other rich countries and some relatively poor ones will probably be paying for their shopping with the same currency. Prices will be quoted not in dollars, yen or D-marks but in, let's say, the phoenix. The phoenix will be favoured by companies and shoppers because it will be more convenient than today's national currencies, which by then will seem a quaint cause of much disruption to economic life in the late twentieth century.”

The article stated that, “The market crash [of 1987] taught [governments] that the pretence of policy cooperation can be worse than nothing, and that until real co-operation is feasible (ie, until governments surrender some economic sovereignty) further attempts to peg currencies will flounder.” Amazingly the article states that, “Several more big exchange-rate upsets, a few more stockmarket crashes and probably a slump or two will be needed before politicians are willing to face squarely up to that choice. This points to a muddled sequence of emergency followed by patch-up followed by emergency, stretching out far beyond 2018-except for two things. As time passes, the damage caused by currency instability is gradually going to mount; and the very trends that will make it mount are making the utopia of monetary union feasible.”

Further, the article stated that, “The phoenix zone would impose tight constraints on national governments. There would be no such thing, for instance, as a national monetary policy. The world phoenix supply would be fixed by a new central bank, descended perhaps from the IMF. The world inflation rate-and hence, within narrow margins, each national inflation rate-would be in its charge. Each country could use taxes and public spending to offset temporary falls in demand, but it would have to borrow rather than print money to finance its budget deficit.” The author admits that, “This means a big loss of economic sovereignty, but the trends that make the phoenix so appealing are taking that sovereignty away in any case. Even in a world of more-or-less floating exchange rates, individual governments have seen their policy independence checked by an unfriendly outside world.”

The article concludes in stating that, “The phoenix would probably start as a cocktail of national currencies, just as the Special Drawing Right is today. In time, though, its value against national currencies would cease to matter, because people would choose it for its convenience and the stability of its purchasing power.” The last sentence states, “Pencil in the phoenix for around 2018, and welcome it when it comes.”...

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0413.html

Fekete is describing the process by which the misallocation of capital with debt based growth eventually implodes productivity. This is deflationary in the overvalued economy, but the undervalued third world continues to grow:

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=454395
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/155305/DPWH-chief-wants-super-region-projects-completed-by-April-2010
http://www.pia.gov.ph/default.asp?m=12&fi=p090412.htm&no=03&r=&y=&mo=
http://mb.com.ph/articles/200840/australia-finances-vismin-road-project

I even read an article today that President of Philippines ordered all projects in Mindanao be completed before end of Q2 2009 and wants the work done 3 x 8 hour shifts per day (non stop working).

It becomes hyperinflationary when the producers in the third world de-couple and refuse the dollar. At that point, to prevent hyperinflation, the flight from dollars has to be managed.

Randy, Though I appreciate your research on feeding mammal sh*t to farmed fish, I think I'd have to be quite hungry to do that. I rather like the closed loop aquaculture of tilapia plus veggies grown in fish sh*t that I mentioned on the JH Forum awhile ago...though it requires some nutrient inputs, like maybe corn meal or old bread. Are you and/or Shelby actually considering it?

(or maybe like my neighbor who claims to have eaten common garden snails, you can feed them "clean food" for a little while before their demise to cleanse their bodies a bit...)

Studbkr2...you always have a HUMOROUS way of putting things. By the way....is JASON HOMMEL's forum DOWN?? I get an ERROR 430 when I try to access it. Or maybe I have been BANNED.

Regardless....what I see going on today in the markets just makes me LAUGH. Grown MEN acting like CHILDREN. CNBC is by far the WORST EXCUSE of INFORMATION ever since PROPAGANDA was invented. THARS a STORM BREWING and it doesn't look good for the United States. Sure, maybe for a bit longer the US DOLLAR may be the LEAST of the BAD (getting tired of that term). Is anyone else just SICK to the point of BARFING when we see the MARKETS RALLY because "COMPANIES LOSSES were NOT AS BAD AS EXPECTED".....FOR PETE SAKES. If I told everyone I LOST 100% of their MONEY...but it turns out that I only lost 85%....EVERYONES CHEERING???? What in the HELL is wrong with AMERICANS TODAY?

It always surprised me to know that so many GERMANS could fall for and follow the LUNATIC HITLER. But Americans of LATE are just as STUPID putting AMERICAN FLAGS on their CARS and following that LUNATIC BUSH and his CRONIES into IRAQ.

Lastly....SHELBY....I do come in here and READ your work. I have to say...when I first started reading your work about the CABAL back 2 years ago...I thought maybe you might be a BIT of your ROCKER...but doing more research and watching many interviews especially RUSS BAKER's Interview on ALEX JONES on his new book about the BUSH DYNASTY....I TAKE IT ALL BACK. It goes above and beyond WEBSTER TARPLEY and CHATKINS "Unauthorized Biography of George Bush". It paints a much different picture of all the PRESIDENTS since EISENHOWER. Its really worth a WATCH. There are 4 parts. I have linked the frist.

You can find it here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR4cwq81qQ&feature=PlayList&p=78A32C3A0B13ABBE&index=0&playnext=1

Yup, the JH Forum is down...I posted it elsewhere on this Forum. I think JH may not be too interested in fixing it since he's busy selling idolatry at his new store (sorry, "numismatics"...I think "idolatry" was his terminology)

Yes, I can't access it either.

...Just picked up this 577 page book at the library; thanks, SRSrocco.

Can't wait to read the 4 chapters with new material on the Kennedy assassination:
- Where was Poppy? (hint: HW was in Dallas).
- Oswald's Friend (hint: someone with CIA connections who was also a friend of HW).
- The Hit (hint- military intelligence figures linked to Poppy Bush's circle were in the pilot car of the motorcade).
- After Camelot

How about 3 chapters rewriting Watergate (Republicans set up Nixon?):
-The Nixonian Bushes
-Downing Nixon, Part I: The Setup
-Downing Nixon, Part II: The Execution

Russ Baker is a mainstream journalist, and the book received praise from Bill Moyers. It was suprising that this new book wasn't on a waiting list-- just walked into the library and picked it up. I guess it has something to do with the Washington Post not liking the book; see their review of it at Amazon.com. (It was the Washington Post that broke the Watergate story).

Now to push a little bit more "off the normal accepted thinking" on the "cabal":

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/

"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now."

Henry Ford in the New York World, February 17th, 1921

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/prtcl_06.html

We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes of the goyim will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash...

I did some more research on fish ponds, and it seems the Philippines has a unique super fish, called "Bangus". It has the positive attributes of Salmon (and more delicious if you ask me), yet it eats algae instead of meat. You may not know that farm raised Salmon must be fed 5x it's weight in anchovies from the sea, which is thus destroying the natural fishing and concentrates mercury in the Salmon.

I do not discard everything Hommel writes, there is some useful info sharing. There are some deeply rooted problems with following Hommel, and I would rather not re-enumerate. I will say generally that I expect it to be unrealistic for most people to profit on the silver situation. I may be wrong in that the silver market is so small that the govt may not be forced by the public to act against the "speculators" (us).

I am now thinking about all this on a much higher philosophical level.

It seems to me that we don't profit in this world in general on the demise or misfortunate of others. Bad situations, end badly for all. Just imagine the world has not enough silver to make honest money, bringing silver back will impoverish a great number of people initially (they will have no money to buy with...they will have to work which is a good thing, but initially the hardship of transistion would be brutal for a short time). Rather we profit in general in life on a our hard work, and production. Most of us have our net worth as a indirect result of the strong dollar and the stealing of the resources of the world from the 3rd world for the west debt bubble. Do you really think the world will let us keep that? Of course, only if we become part of the ongoing scam to enslave the world.

I understand that the world will be impoverished if we don't bring back honest money, but also remember that the production of the world is usually increasing on the long time window, thus even though the govt (corruption/parasite) is always growing, the rebalancing of the world will help many to eat better.

Silver has lost it's usefulness as money. It is too scarce, it can't perform it's function. It will swing wildly in value in society, it will continue to hurt many people, both the investors and/or general public if it becomes highly valued.

Money is the root of all evil.

Remember silver is a speculation, because we are trying to take something which we did not earn. The sweat of the 3rd world is stored in that silver manipulation. We are speculating that we can navigate the return of that value to society in our favor.

Money is the root of all evil.

I am not sure where to store my (drastically reduced) net worth. I want my capital to be productive, and probably in the 3rd world.

I am very conflicted now about silver. I am still invested, and thinking deeply about whether I am doing Biblical duty by storing capital in silver. For any Biblically unequitable activity will of course result in failure in the end.

I would say now that is it probably Biblical to own a little silver, little gold, and if you have capability to invest directly in business (in 3rd world), then do it. But I think it is somehow speculating to put a large % of one's wealth in silver alone. However, it is better than storing it in bonds and the usury.

Shelby quoted from:

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/protocols/

Of course today that website is laughable; its extreme old-time prejudice and hatred being obvious. Amazing to see the quotes of leaders of that period and how they tossed slogans around.

The same goes on today, only with different prejudices and slogans. That is where the power is, not in stepping off the stage and talking scientifically about what is happening. Walk around with no costume, and people will cover their eyes; they might even kill.

So with this risk in mind, I’ll discuss the issue of one world government. People are polarized in their positions, and prejudging and throwing slogans at their opponents. Might it simply be a natural transformation, like a chemical reaction, with the prejudice and slogans serving as hormones? I wrote on another forum:

It is like being on the leading edge of new growth on a bush. When the gardener comes around, he will either leave it, shape it, or cut it off. While some might call the gardener God and others call it destiny, the “gardener” is a symbol for what scientifically would be the natural progression for a planet like ours. We are on the bush so we can’t see very well from our limited perspective to make accurate predictions.

As a metaphor, I like to imagine an alien from a distant galaxy looking at our planet, where each year in earth time takes one second in his time. The earth would appear “on fire’ with life, going through various predictable phases. Perhaps the alien has seen thousands of planets go through these same phases before, and knows what happens next.

It would not be too great a stretch to suppose that progression might be from no power center, to various competing power centers, to a single power center (one world government). This scenario seems scary now, but only because we are not ready for it yet. The way things are going, a few nightmare events might get us there. From the perspective of the alien observer, this may simply be watching the earth go through turbulent teenage years on its way to adulthood.

Has anyone heard of a cell with two nuclei, or an organism with two brains? Why would anyone think that the world, now with technology having completed many of its connections and “wiring”, would be any different?

dz20854 wrote:...as anyone heard of a cell with two nuclei, or an organism with two brains? Why would anyone think that the world, now with technology having completed many of its connections and “wiring”, would be any different?

I appreciate your post, especially on how we can not usually see beyond the branches of system we are currently on.

But why is it natural? The Bible and the "Satan's Bible", shows how man's sin leads to the enslavement man in a centralized power structure. And the Bible offers alternatives, where man can lead a free life by only following a few simple rules. Those rules boil down to a simple theme, "live a simple life, devoid as much as possible from material and human needs". Even avoiding jealously (coveting) is covered by that simple theme. That lifestyle leads men to be independent of any material power structure.

But has any one heard of any natural system that survives when all the decisions are made by one brain, or chemical mechanism? Of course not. Natural is robust, because it has zillions of independent actors, each reacting independently to compete for the optimum solution to any set of stimuli. Centrally managed systems crash and burn in nature, because they can not adapt and compete robustly. I already covered this theoretically:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Mass-Entropy_Equivalence.html

Shelby wrote:...Added April 07, 2008: In sociology, diversification is socialism, i.e. the individual relies on the majority. Fiat money, insurance, social security, thus all forms of socialism decrease the wealth of those who depend on them. I reiterate the mathematical proof is "as mass increases exponentially, Entropy decreases linearly, and vice versa". So this means only the individual who is smarter than the bell curve can have a non-constant marginal utility for money. Nature does not allow everyone to be equally smart/wise/wealthy, because it violates the inverse exponential mathematical nature of mass-entropy equivalence...

So the centralized outcome is a failure outcome of man's sin, exactly as predicted in Revelations. For those who opt for the independent simple theme, Jesus (new beginning) is awaiting them on the other side.

You can see how evil uses man's sins psychologically to enslave man (i.e. man enslaves himself):

http://financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2009/0417.html
http://coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/psychopolitics.html (alleged 1950s Russian document referred to in prior article)


P.S. What I just wrote agrees with (but is a superset of) SRSrocco's theme that we must return to localized production.. Where I may have differed with Steve (and perhaps he has not disagreed with me), is that the centralized power structure (people will concentrate into Satan's cities as the "Satan's Bible" predicts) will be the overriding theme for the majority. You will not see the majority opting to become simple, and come through the other side of this centralized crash and burn stage. I suppose thus I am a hypothetical alien and I can see how it is playing out. Steve and others have also apparently seen parts of how this will play out. Together we are weaving the whole picture of the future. Steve and I have 2 slightly different religions, Christianity being proved to me FACTUALLY by it's inherent truth and how it has predicted (2000 years ago) all that is happening now, and as best as I can tell, Steve appears to trying to view everything factually preferring to use more near-term (and thus less well proven and vetted) predictions of human "experts" such as that Peak Oil guy and that silver guy. I see Peak Oil and silver to be just small short-term abberations on the more long-term theme of man's self-enslavement (I prefer to call it man's choice to sin or not). As for data and statistics, remember that all data can be true for a moment in time, but there we are on a branch and not seeing the total long-term picture.

Steve we have to be very careful as these "experts" are perhaps sent to scientifically remove Christianity:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/psychopolitics.html#chap14

The Bible explains this is all very clearly:

1 Samuel 8

Israel Asks for a King
1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges for Israel. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, "You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead [a] us, such as all the other nations have."

6 But when they said, "Give us a king to lead us," this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [b] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king."

Shelby wrote:

The Bible and the "Satan's Bible", shows how man's sin leads to the enslavement of man in a centralized power structure.

Given the context of the time period and setting in which the Bible was written, it offers wise counsel about the dangers of centralized power and in how to avoid enslavement. Revelations provides a vivid parable as to what can happen should centralized power take control, and showing what the thinking would be of the types of people who would be able to survive it.

Technology advanced very slowly in those days, and of course people from then could not forsee the exponential changes occuring now. We are coming upon a change as great as that of a catapillar turning into a butterfly, but to nature all very common and ordinary. Revelations is not about this larger change that is occuring. Yes there will be short term dislocations, some quite severe, and the lessons of Revelations will help some to survive the transition. But the exponential ramping of technology, unforseeable to the Bible writers, is creating conditions where centralized power can and will emerge.

If for no other reason than to prevent “Hurtling Toward Oblivion”, the current trajectory of the world as described by Richard A. Swenson, M.D., in his book of the same title. He wrote:

The world is always, and unavoidably, experiencing an increased profusion.

With each new level of profusion we have much new positive but, unavoidably…much new negative.

The growth of positive is rapid, approximating exponential growth. But the corresponding growth of negative is also alarmingly rapid… the accumulation of negative is [also] exponential.

Once this quantum, this critical mass, of negative reaches a certain threshold of lethality, it will prove fatal for our world system.

Under conditions of exponentiality, change can go from almost undetectable to overwhelming in the blink of an eye.

No amount of positive can offset this negative and the impending lethality.

We have no possible option but to continue in this fatal direction because of our total dependency on progress.

Swenson thinks we can’t avoid total destruction; I disagree. It’s the starting of this destruction that will allow strong central control in a small number of crucial areas. But the good side of technology will bring about far greater freedoms in most facets of daily living.

Shelby wrote:

But has anyone heard of any natural system that survives when all the decisions are made by one brain, or chemical mechanism?

I agree-- even a single brain is actually a community of competing interests. The conscious part is actually only a small part of that community. Even within the conscious part there can sometimes emerge multiple personalities. I suppose the G20 could be looked at as a single brain. Why should physical location matter in an age of instant communications? Maybe we are just talking semantics.

Imo, the Bible writers understood exponential time, as evident by them using the actual years divided by orders-of-magnitude, so that when the time came we would be able to relate to the rate of change in their stories. They also predicted the exponential increase in technology, refer to the scripture that says communication and travel will increase greatly.

I think the good power of technology will actually be used to destroy the evil as Romains 13 says:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/biblical-f3/love-of-money-self-pleasure-and-false-prophets-in-end-times-t74.htm#1331

It is a simple fact of thermodynamics (Entropy) that highly ordered systems are unstable and can not survive long. Have you ever noticed the more ordered you make your life, the more effort it takes to keep it ordered? See my Mass-Entropy theory. So Swenson falls into the trap of those who misintrepret Romains 13, i.e. anyone who covets the material results will see the destruction as against them, but anyone who desires heaven will see the destruction as the opening of the narrow gate for those who chose to come out of the evil (and beheaded or whatever comes materially in the time of great change near the peak in the 666).

The changes can be incredibly rapid at the peak of exponential systems, e.g. see the Water Lily story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth#The_water_lily

The Bible provides wisdom on how to escape the damnation and wrath of the good power, and it is essentially to come out of the evil. So when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

I have been thinking (and researching technology ideas) a lot the past days about how I could use my technology skills to help people come out of the evil of the system. The best idea I have thus far is to enable more communication. I probably should have continued to improve my original business, coolpage.com. The past 3 years with silver and Hommel were apparently to give me better wisdom of to how to apply my skills in good power.

Shelby wrote:

when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

When Swenson talks about the bad side of exponential increase in technology, he is not primarily talking about anything evil. He thinks the added capabilities, volume and speed have outgrown what our world can handle.

Like a small home based business being operated out of an old 1920’s house that has aluminum wiring. The business is growing exponentially with ever more employees, numerous computers, and things like microwave ovens. An electrical disaster waiting to happen. Also, fixtures might be treated roughly; something that institutional quality furnishings might allow for but not residential grade. It's not that the employees are evil; just that the furnishings should be built to withstand that type of traffic.

Think of how people plant computer viruses just for kicks and not trying to earn any money from it. With billions of people in the world and the type of technology being made available, we might find that some of the things being done for “kicks” could destroy the planet. Some of these people might be more naive or thoughtless than evil. A strong system needs to be in place so that the effect of any such activity could be contained.

Swenson wrote his book in the late 1990's (before 9/11) and was invited for consultations with the Pentagon and Congress. Perhaps it was thought that there was a near 100% chance for Swenson's theory to come to pass, and so we see false flag and other extreme measures being attempted in a last ditch effort.

Some additonal thoughts on Revelations, all just IMO:

Shelby wrote, refering to Romans 13:

anyone who covets the material results will see the destruction as against them, but anyone who desires heaven will see the destruction as the opening of the narrow gate for those who chose to come out of the evil.

The Bible writers wanted to place emphasis on “heaven” and the “narrow gate” leading thereto, but could not explicitly define these terms and still be graceful. They knew that “material results”, even to excess, do not necessarily block the gate, but they needed a socially acceptable whipping boy to add power to their words in lieu of being able to be explicit in their definitions. They wanted the reader to figure out what was left unsaid. This was suggested when Jesus turned away and claimed not to know people who had followed the text literally without discovering the unspoken.

The “end of the world” in Revelations might actually be referring to the end of the life of an individual person. Seeing this shift in levels helps reveal the meaning of Revelations. The Bible has always preferred to leave matters of the world to Ceasar.

dz20854 wrote:Shelby wrote:

when we use technology, we should use it to come out of the evil aspects of the system.

When Swenson talks about the bad side of exponential increase in technology, he is not primarily talking about anything evil. He thinks the added capabilities, volume and speed have outgrown what our world can handle...

Think of how people plant computer viruses just for kicks and not trying to earn any money from it. With billions of people in the world and the type of technology being made available, we might find that some of the things being done for “kicks” could destroy the planet. Some of these people might be more naive or thoughtless than evil. A strong system needs to be in place so that the effect of any such activity could be contained...

I have not read him, so I will respond only to your summary.

100% disagree. The stronger and more centralized the control, the more likely the failure. Do you understand Entropy? Here is the math:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Mass-Entropy_Equivalence.html

Example. Microsoft software is much more prone to crash and failure to viruses, because it is written in a centralized, closed source manner. Whereas, open source written in a free market and competitive manner tends to be much more robust, because the virus writers have access to the source code also! This seems counter-intuitive, but what makes an immune system strong is getting sick as many times as possible. Experience leads to wisdom. This is all explained by the math of Entropy.

If we have a decentralized and highly competitive free market on the internet, then the internet will become very robust. TPTB are trying to centralize it and thus eventually destroy it (it will become vulnerable to viruses if they centralize strong control), but luckily I think it is impossible for them to get control over it. At the same time they are increasing their centralized control over money and politics, the internet seems to be the free market release valve of this epoch.

dz20854 wrote:...The “end of the world” in Revelations might actually be referring to the end of the life of an individual person. Seeing this shift in levels helps reveal the meaning of Revelations. The Bible has always preferred to leave matters of the world to Ceasar.

Those who perish in Revelations (who take the Mark 666 and become part of the centralized system) will fail to flourish because they chose the failure direction of minimum Entropy (maximum order).

Those who stay free with God and forsake material burdens (needs), will flourish.

It is simple math. Entropy. Always has been in nature. Always will be.

There is new evidence already. People in the USA think they are individuals, but most are mostly programmed chickens:

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/04/escape-from-the-zombie-food-court.html (don't agree with his socialism ideas for solutions)

And because they have lost their individuality, they are failing and dying as a race and country and culture. The people have even lost their individuality spiritually, falling to organized churches instead of praying in their room as Jesus instructed in Matthew 6:5.

Note that Joe Beagan's prose is very much pro-cabal, because he teaches that we can not be unique, he doesn't mention biblical concepts such as Matthew 6:5, and he instead offer the false idols of a perfectly socialistic new society (typical cabal pysops).

Back to the original topic of this thread. Now Fekete finally agrees with me (maybe he did all along):

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0427.html

Fekete wrote:...This is the secret of deflation, and the answer to the much-debated question whether you can have hyperinflation and deflation all at the same time. The answer is that you can, because hyperinflation refers to electronic money that people reject, and deflation refers to FR notes that people hoard...

...people when they find out that their deposits are “gone with the wind”...

I have been saying that the liquid electronic dollar will hyperinflated and if you want to unlock any capital outside the USA, you need to act quickly. The green paper dollars may become more valuable than their face value, as this is what Gresham's Law predicts (just as silver coins did in 1965). Expect the USA to then stop making FRNs entirely, just as they stopped making silver coins.

I think it is a lot easier to counterfeit an older version of a FRN than a silver coin.

Of course this will send silver value to the moon, but as I said, the cabal is not going to let you walk away with those capital gains easily. They got you trapped because what you can buy with your silver that would be covered by govt's ability to tax, if silver goes to say $100 per oz and your 5,000oz becomes $0.5 million?

Sure some will find ways to navigate this. One of my strategies is to move some of my silver outside the USA. Which is a strategy advised by CaseyResearch.com also.

Shelby wrote:Back to the original topic of this thread. Now Fekete finally agrees with me (maybe he did all along):

http://financialsense.com/editorials/fekete/2009/0427.html

Fekete wrote:...This is the secret of deflation, and the answer to the much-debated question whether you can have hyperinflation and deflation all at the same time. The answer is that you can, because hyperinflation refers to electronic money that people reject, and deflation refers to FR notes that people hoard...

...people when they find out that their deposits are “gone with the wind”...

I have been saying that the liquid electronic dollar will hyperinflated and if you want to unlock any capital outside the USA, you need to act quickly. The green paper dollars may become more valuable than their face value, as this is what Gresham's Law predicts (just as silver coins did in 1965). Expect the USA to then stop making FRNs entirely, just as they stopped making silver coins.


I think it is a lot easier to counterfeit an older version of a FRN than a silver coin.

Of course this will send silver value to the moon, but as I said, the cabal is not going to let you walk away with those capital gains easily. They got you trapped because what you can buy with your silver that would be covered by govt's ability to tax, if silver goes to say $100 per oz and your 5,000oz becomes $0.5 million?

Sure some will find ways to navigate this. One of my strategies is to move some of my silver outside the USA. Which is a strategy advised by CaseyResearch.com also.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/brochert050309.html
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/baltin050109.html

There is going to be massive deleveraging, with massive inflation also. Govts will go bezerk trying to deal with this:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/health-f5/preparing-for-coming-crisis-t41-15.htm#1383 (Streent fignhting Man)

Which means Gold will be at premium. if the scarcity of silver can send up to 5 or 10 ratio to gold, then silver will have some of the portability advantages of Gold, along with it'smimportant function of giving change. imagine if 1/10th oz Gold goes to $1000 (in current dollars), then 1oz silver is more viable for a bribe or barter at $100. However, i remain skeptical about return of silver as money.

Remember overvalued jobs and business will deflate, and developing nations will inflate. The dollar will deflate in value, which will inflate prices in dollars. Then all the chaos of that.