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Who really controls the govt? (Conspiracy Theories thread)

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion

Post  Shelby on Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:00 pm

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article15736.html#comment95707

Shelby wrote:Lehman and Bear Sterns were bankrupted by design of JP Morgan and the other owners of the Fed.

There is a rough outline of the master plan for bringing the world to a new order. The exact outcomes within this plan are hatched by floating multiple scenarios of destruction, and then adjusting in maximize theft they can do with each crisis they successfully create.

I even have a link to it:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

And no it isn't a forgery.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty fraudsters are the regulators

Post  Shelby on Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:13 am

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23741.html

Shelby wrote:The fraudsters are very happy to create a crisis that will end up with more regulation, because they will ALWAYS own the regulators. This is because people love debt, and debt is only possible on a fiat money standard. And the bankster mafia that controls this world derives from the man who, "let me control the creation of a nation's money, and I care not who makes its laws".

Don't support more regulation, because it is only you and me who will be regulated. The fraudsters will continue doing their fraud, because they own the casino house and manufacture the chips we use.

The current housing mess is by design to push the people to bailout themselves and socialism morass that can't be stopped:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23558.html#comment95675

The only solution for mankind is to come out of the Great Harlot system of debt servitude. Meaning stop doing these Major Frauds of Humanity:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article21650.html

But of course people can never stop. That is why Revelation in the Bible explains where this will end. Total and complete self-strangulation of humanity by itself.

Oh btw, much of China's personal savings doesn't exist and is just circular loans to itself:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-435.htm#3566

It will go poof and disappear when this global reflation reaches its death star inflection point. Much of that infrastructure was wrongly allocated and will be left to rot:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-450.htm#3775

Cheers.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Jesse Ventura says he has a confession from JFK killer

Post  Shelby on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:40 am

See the end of this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/v/e5CnkBDv-rg

Here is the confession:

https://www.youtube.com/v/yO1iHpf1R3o

http://www.rense.com/general76/hunt.htm

It implicates LBJ, Hoover, Nixon, Cheney, and the Bush family.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty If I were elected President of USA...

Post  Shelby on Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:25 pm

...on my first day in office, I would send out an executive order by all viral means (e.g. internet, radio, TV, teletype, etc) instructing all lower officers of the military that the chain of command is now broken, and they report directly to me.

And my standing order is they are to use every means at their disposal to bring every member of the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg to Washington for a giant meeting.

There Rockfeller and all of them will be forced to a weeks long meeting broadcast on CSPAN.

We will get to the root of this evil. We will expose everything.

Their rights will not be violated. The govt will not steal from them what they stole from us. We will let them face the people and explain themselves.

I have a simple solution if they claim the 5th Admendment, "You have been identified as terrorist and you have no such rights, under the executive orders that you created, so you can either speak here, or I can unleash you to the mob outside".

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty H W Bush was a Nazi?

Post  Shelby on Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:33 am

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm

In short, Otto Skorzeny claimed that the true identity of George H.W. Bush was “George H. Scherff, Jr.

Is this the same man?

Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Hwbush10 <-- click for source

Does the upper left face look 14 years old? Hmmm, I am doubting it.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty I am convinced the globalists think they are doing the right thing

Post  Shelby on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:38 pm

David Rockefeller's involvement with Warren Buffet and Bill Gates is well documented in this fascinating interview:

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11063

Clearly they don't know how to organize a world that is not top-down managed, even though they recognize that a free market of $billionaire philanthropy (no gatekeeper) and "massive partnership" requirements.

So I think Rockefeller has succeeded because people think he has offered the best possibilities for leadership.

But in fact, what is driving the whole thing fundamentally is usury and fiat monetary systems. Without usury and insurance, Buffet wouldn't have $billions to have to give away. It would have been properly directed by the free market already.

Buffet had a clear vested and conflict-of-interest to step in and help push through the massive stimulus and QE:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/26/buffett-cleans-up-on-derivatives-bet/

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Noam Chomsky

Post  Shelby on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:26 pm


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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty PROMIS, Oklahoma City, 9-11, Osama, African embassy bombings

Post  Shelby on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:34 pm



Last edited by Shelby on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Economic Hitman (Perkins) interviewed by Lew Rockwell

Post  Shelby on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:58 pm


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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Big picture - kill off the human population over next decades?

Post  Shelby on Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:07 am

Real purpose of the Gulf disaster has been achieved

It is a trial run for polluting the worlds water and food systems using corexit as an experiment. They want to see how many people they can kill with this method. They oil spill was just an excuse for the Corexit dumping, which is the main goal. Would they love for the spill to worsen over time, so they can dump more Corexit.

These bastards are trying to kill all of us. Is that not enough reason to sell your house and buy silver? Sheeple are asleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J0qC1XCv_Q

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Below follows the discussion that lead to the post above
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Thanks for refreshing my memory on Fitts' "slowburn". I don't read her often lately. Seems I am now describing what she had written long ago.

Amazing the revolving door of power, in that the elite can cause a revolution via inflation, and gain more control via chaos, because of the power vacuum of democracy.

In short, democracy = power vacuum.

The only thing that works is individual saving in PHYSICAL gold and silver. Then we vote with our actions. But I don't think enough people will come to realize this deeply enough to stop the NWO. So prepare for end times, within about 30 years or less.

Of course physical metal can't be a panacea, because money measures the root of all evil, which is human greed and jealousy.

>
> I agree and would only add that with the available evidence we must now
> conclude that the revolutions in the Middle East have been wholly
> manufactured by the global elite for the purpose of eliminating the last
> real strongholds impeding plans for the NWO. Also, I don't think Ruppert
> fully grasped the ability of the global elite to maintain control of the
> global economy and prop up the dollar in order to continue to fund the
> U.S. military. This is something he and Austin Fitts disagreed on as she
> always had the more logical view that the collapse would be slow and drawn
> out thus her "slow burn" description compared to his "fast crash"
> scenario.
>
> By the way, there is good analysis of events in the Libya by The Daily
> Bell today that also nicely sums up the globalists' hand in the M.E.
> uprisings.
>
> http://www.thedailybell.com/1839/The-Unspontaneous-Libyan-Revolution.html
>
> "The Rothschilds it should be noted have a strong base of operations in
> Britain, specifically in the City of London where the strategic braintrust
> of the New World Order is located. It is run like a mafia family, with the
> Rothschilds choosing to work with other Jews just as the Italian mafia
> works with other Italians. The Rothschild's operations are apparently
> worldwide and the money that the Rothschild's and others control via
> central banking is virtually limitless.
>
> "From this nexus of investment and banking families has spread the plague
> of mercantilist central banking, which now afflicts the globe. Not content
> with the ruinous centralization of central banking, the Rothschild's,
> their allies and intelligence operatives have apparently launched a global
> attack on developing countries. Libya is just the latest country to
> receive the "treatment." Even the orchestration is deliberate, with each
> country falling in line, like dominoes, no two at once to ensure maximum
> media coverage."
>
> P. S. The Daily Bell also points out that the U.S. is the NWO's primary
> enforcer (of course) - so the muscle and not necessarily the entire seat
> of power. I've given it a lot of thought over the years and I came to the
> conclusion that the elites would not allow the dollar to crash as long as
> they were dependent upon the U.S. military to be their enforcer. No
> matter how precarious the dollar may look given our debt, the elites still
> have several tricks in their bag to keep the game going for quite awhile -
> and this is in line with the thinking of Austin Fitts whose economic and
> geopolitical "road map" has been far more accurate than any other I've
> come across.


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Agreed the scientists are brainwashed by clever cover stories, such as the concept that computers could one day replace humans, thus the need for some centralized control or law. This shows a complete lack of education about Godel's theorem.

Take any prominent scientist, they will be non-delusional about perhaps up to 99% of issues, but that 1% lapse of rationality is what the elite exploit, and so they find a champion in each area they want to promulgate.

But man can only destroy himself, he can not destroy nature. For example, look at the area about Chernobyl, the plants and animals are thriving again.

"accurate" needs a definition in this context. And this is a key concept I will elucidate now. The "accuracy" means a free market. Because no one person knows the truth. The only truth is the one that fits a billion people, a billion different ways. Because each person has a unique situation and truth. Diversity is the key to life. A uniform distribution has no possibilities, it can only fit one environment.

So I hope you can appreciate why I am trying to use my computer science skills to create paradigms that could spontaneously destroy attempts to centralize information flow on the internet.

That is what my current two projects are about:

Copute.com - a new way of decentralized programming sharing with an economic benefit for individual programmers

Ssshhhout.com - make and share comments about any page on the internet, without the permission of the page owner. Do not let them say "ssshhh", "ssshhhout" instead.

Btw, the model of ssshhhout.com includes an advertising paradigm that could destroy Google's centralization of the web.


>
> GMOs are poison and will damage the earth's natural ecosystem - this is
> "the end justifies the means".
>
> Neofeudalism and serfdom through banskter tyranny cannot be compatible
> with a knowledge based economy and certainly not compatible with
> benevolence towards mankind. I think you are looking at the outside
> dressing on the global elite agenda.
>
> It is absolutely correct that our job is to compete with them providing
> access to accurate information!
>
> Did you see Soros' recent comment that he thinks China is a the best model
> of societal control? That's definitely not a free market or a system of
> transparency and free exchange of information. The elites at the very top
> of the hierarchy have an ideology in line with Strauss, i.e. complete
> authoritarian rule of the rich and powerful over the masses of slaves.
> They have devised elaborate cover stories to get people like Gates,
> Google's founders, and prominent academics to accept their policies.



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1) FRACKING of WELLS would lead to underground water contamination and desruption of underground geology.

Casual correlation is far from evidence in any court of law.

Besides, disruption might be a good thing. Might result is more varied outcomes. Shake people out of their boring lives. Etc. We can't conclude that earthquakes are bad, heck they are natural.

4) OIL would hit $200 a barrel.

$200 oil is hardly peak oil, given the gold/oil is not drastically altered. 10 oz of gold per barrel, would be peak oil.

$200 oil just means that people who are more productive, will get more. And the lazy do-nothing fat cats will get less (and will need to live crammed into cities where they can be fed with an IV and have a masturbation machine connected to their genitals so they don't have motivation to leave their cubicle). Or it may mean they just lead more efficient energy lives and not the negatives I purposely stereotyped on their lifestyle in order to make the point that stereotypes are silly.

There is no peak oil effect yet, the price of oil has not risen ten-fold in gold units yet. The rising fiat price of oil is the death of the fiat system, not of energy. It is actually the rebirth of civilization (300 year private wave is starting; 300 year public wave, e.g. nation-state central banking, is ending). I don't mean this as an attack, it just seems your thinking is twisted because you are conflating issues. Natural gas is declining in price! Example, you want so much for the peak civilization to be true, that you conflate earthquakes with natural gas fracking-- which may or may not have cause and effect relationship.


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I hate to say it....this country is SCREWED.

But I want to know your opinion of what comes after the collapse?

Are you saying USA is screwed forever?

Like paint a picture for me. We go back to jungle life and become monkeys? What kind of picture do you see?


===========================================
===========================================
You still didn't answer my question.

What comes after the 60-80% die off? (it doesn't take more than a few weeks for people to starve to death)

Do we stay in a permanent trend of cavemen? Why?

If they parasites are dead, what stops the remaining 20% from doing quite well, given all the oil we have in the gulf, with 80% less people to consume it.

And considering we are probably smart enough by then, to stop wasting the oil and use it to produce necessary things such as food, efficiently.


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My crystal ball...

Just keep one thing in mind, it is extremely difficult to kill 100+ million people. Hilter couldn't do it. And we have a much more vast land area for people to escape.

Rather I don't think the globalists are going for unrealistic kill (Ted Turner's delusional Georgia Guidestones notwithstanding), instead they just want things to get nasty and difficult enough, that people accept the socialized solution that is offered to them.

If non-essential transportation were shut down by $500 oil price, there can be sufficient oil to grow food, it is just people will have a hard time affording it. This is exactly what the globalists want. They want to tax the middle class to cover the cost to feed the 30 - 50% who can't pay 500% higher food prices. Remember Buffett purchased an entire railroad! (he knows long-haul trucking will die)

So what I see is there will be huge fights, but the people will get fed and those people will support the government because it is feeding them.

So I see a long drawn out attrition.

Gold, silver, energy, and food will go skyhigh, and so will taxes. They will cut some services, but when it gets down to food, taxes will rise instead.


===========================================
===========================================
http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/?hpt=C1&hpt=C2

No oil used to produce bricks. The world is not moving backwards from civilization, it is moving forwards. The backtracking is only for those western people who deluded themselves with debt. They will have to pay off their debts with slavery for a while. Which of course will reduce the waste of energy (non-essential activities been funded by consumer debt, with USA consuming 25% of world's energy with only 5% of world's population), and free up more energy for these peasants to rise up to more modern way-of-life.

How can you claim the world is going backwards, when a majority of the people in the world live less modern way-of-life than you do now in your rural bugout?

I realize the above does not address your geologic EROEI concerns, but I have addressed those before, wherein I have stated that technology always deals with such Malthusian limitations.


===========================================
===========================================
I agree there is a train-wreck ahead. And it could eventually spill out into regional or even world war a decade from now or so, if things get bad enough. Wars can kill a large number of people on the pretext of defense. But to kill 1 in 3 or 13 in 14 people (Ted Turner's Georgia Guidestones), is very difficult to do. Would require a zombie population devoid of thought and emotion.

It is really difficult to starve humans when there are forests around. You can do that in Somalia perhaps, partially because it is a desert (and the tribal/nomadic culture from that). Perhaps that is why the globalists tried to destroy the wildlife in the Gulf? (assuming they caused that on purpose)

Rather what I think is coming is a civil war of sorts, where those with savings and discipline, struggle against the socialists (including govt employees, retirees, indebted, etc) who suck on the tit of the fiat theft machine.

We are very early in the process where the Tea Party people are just starting to figure out that politics is a black hole of cooption and manipulation. They are starting to make their war to Alex Jones' infowars.com and that is why he is seeing his viewership skyrocket and Martin Sheen willing to give him the exclusive on his opening salvo in fight against the old guard of mass media.

As these folks start to learn to save in gold & silver, then they will be ready to provide the base of support that keeps the whole thing from devolving into a Somalia.

But yeah, it is going to be quite a chaotic struggle. And I agree the cities are going to get nasty. But one person's nasty is another person's excitment and stimulation.

Hope you don't mind I will copy this reply (not your comments) to the forum, because I think I made a few points that people might find stimulating. I am not criticizing you in this reply.

I will grant that oil is a major player in this global transformation, but I don't think exactly as a peak oil as the #1 driving factor, but the falling EROEI plays an important role in defining when the monarches in middle east can not be sustained, as you pointed out in conjunction which population growth that desires freedom. These middle east countries were sparsh tribes roaming desert, now they have large populations and cities and internet awareness.


===========================================
===========================================
Big Picture on depopulation & end times

>
> I'm with you, I think the depopulation plan is intended to span several
> decades. A mass die off would not be desired by TPTB for several reasons.
>
> Ways to depopulate also include decreasing fertility.

Ah your area of speciality raises a perspective that I am of course aware of, but did not think to raise in this context. Excellent point.

> For instance, the
> Gates foundation is supporting research for vaccines to be dispersed
> through nanotechnology dropped en masse from planes and Gates has publicly
> stated that he believes vaccines can reduce the global population (which
> would normally be counterintuitive, right?).

The logic of which I am sure you are aware, is that if women have less fear of losing children to disease, they will delay childbearing, and they become materialistic and self-centered and then the population shrinks, which is exactly what is happpening to most of Europe.

> One of the Rockefeller
> foundations was caught (perhaps 30 years ago) giving vaccines in Latin
> America ONLY to women of child bearing age which raised some suspicion in
> those communities. From what I recall, when the vaccines were tested they
> were found to contain human chorionic gonadotropic hormone which was being
> introduced in the vaccine with the intention of creating antibodies to a
> hormone important during embryonic development (particularly) and fetal
> gestation thus resulting in miscarriages.

Yeah I read about that again recently. They learned the natives are not so stupid. They need a much more insideous method. Thanks for mentioning Bill Gates, I had been commenting about him too recently.

>
> Also, I feel certain that depopulation is also going to be accomplished by
> dramatically lowering life expectancy through GMOs, air and water
> contamination (best example of the latter is the movie Gasland showing
> widespread water contamination in the U.S. with natural gas and poisonous
> chemicals that makes locals very ill and will drive populations out of
> rural areas), engineered pathogens, chemtrail poisoning, and reduced
> health care for middle aged and elderly (already started in U.S. with
> brand new policy on organ donation giving preference to age 30 and under
> rather than need and wait times, and reportedly being considered as policy
> for other health conditions such as cancer).

Ah so the Gulf oil accident was a test run? Remember they did a test run on Twin Towers several years before 9-11.

I don't want to say I know any of this for sure, I don't want to be delusional about correlation.

But again, I say they can't succeed with any of those if they don't have a mentally broken population. So that is why they will focus on mass media and dumbing the population.

I think they hope to keep the wise rebels to less than a few % of the population, so they can kill us during this next few years. They need to get rid of us, so then they can proceed with dumbing down the rest of the population.

Do you see why I am working on sshhout.com now? And Copute.com too to target the programmers and raise their awareness and power.

> Just crashing economies
> dramatically lowers life expectancy. I don't remember the exact numbers
> cited in Crossing The Rubicon but I know that a very dramatic drop in life
> expectancy took place when Russia's economy collapsed on the order of 20
> to 25 years lower for men (down to the mid 50s from the upper 70s). The
> current life expectancy for an American Lakota (Sioux) male right now in
> the U.S. is 45 or 46.

Another excellent point. Breaking down the humans and introducing inferior demographics over decades.

Yeah I see the big picture now, thanks.

> You are spot on about the Gulf oil spill, that definitely has all the
> fingerprints of an engineered environmental catastrophe to depopulate.
> When you get a chance you might want to watch the Jesse Ventura Conspiracy
> Theory video on the Gulf. Ventura produced several excellent mini
> documentaries on a range of subjects and many or most of his television
> programs were placed on youtube after reports emerged of DVR services
> remotely erasing episodes from private homes.

Yes I watched his early series, last being the Manchurian Candidate. Didn't keep up lately. Didn't know he did one on the Gulf.


===========================================
===========================================
The Octopus...
...the head is located in the US Dept. of Justice; tentacles reach out to Cali, Indian reservations, the Gambino family, Wackenhut, the intelligence community, MCA Corp., etc.
Some of the players occupy important positions today.

This interview of author Cheri Seymour about her recent well documented book, The Last Circle, begins here (part 1 of 4).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMbkn4xKftQ&feature=player_profilepage#t=4s


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Wikileaks exposed Bill Gates, Monsanto, US State Dept collusion

Who is it in this forum who admires Warren Buffet? He is funding this!

Expounding on the big picture plan to kill off the human population over decades...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/03/05/wikileaks-exposes-unholy-alliance-of-us-government-bill-gates-and-monsanto.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/01/12/wikileaks-reveals-us-sought-to-retaliate-against-europe-over-monsanto-gm-crops.aspx



A WikiLeaks release of U.S. diplomatic cables has revealed that the Bush administration planned ways to retaliate against Europe for its refusal to use genetically modified seeds.

According to Democracy Now:

"In 2007, then-U.S. ambassador to France Craig Stapleton was concerned about France's decision to ban cultivation of genetically modified corn produced by biotech giant Monsanto. He also warned that a new French environmental review standard could spread anti-biotech policy across Europe ...

In the leaked cable, Stapleton writes, quote, '... Moving to retaliation will make clear that the current path has real costs to EU interests and could help strengthen European pro-biotech voice.'"

Stapleton recommended retaliations that would cause "some pain" across the EU. Folks, this is pretty much conclusive proof that the U.S. government is working towards Monsanto's pro-GM goals.

(For video transcript, see Democracy Now link below.)

Sources:
Democracy Now December 23, 2010

Guardian.co.uk January 3, 2010

AlterNet.org January 3, 2010



Dr. Mercola's Comments:


Monsanto has a long and sordid history of manipulation and questionable business practices, so this latest development doesn't really surprise me. It's quite clear that the US government has been aiding and abetting Monsanto's quest to control the world's food crops, and as Jeffrey Smith says in the Democracy Now interview above, these leaked documents "lays bare the mechanics of that effort."

According to U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks, the Bush administration conspired to find ways to retaliate against Europe for refusing to use genetically modified (GM) seeds, mainly by engaging in aggresive trade wars against reluctant nations.

Wikileaks Reveals Plan to Retaliate Against Europe for Non-GMO Stance
In a leaked cable from 2007, Craig Stapleton, who was the U.S. ambassador to France at the time, comments on France's decision to ban cultivation of genetically modified (GM) corn:

"Europe is moving backwards not forwards on this issue with France playing a leading role, along with Austria, Italy and even the [European] Commission... Moving to retaliation will make clear that the current path has real costs to EU interests and could help strengthen European pro-biotech voice.

... Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits.

The list should be measured rather than vicious and must be sustainable over the long term, since we should not expect an early victory."

WikiLeaks also released a cable from 2009; this one from the US ambassador to Spain, asking the US government to help formulate a strategy to support the members of the Spanish government interested in promoting GMOs.

According to Smith, the information specifically indicates that they'd been briefed by the director of Monsanto for the region, and that strategies to promote the GMO agenda were created during that meeting.

The Guardian reports that,"[T]he cables show US diplomats working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto.

"In response to recent urgent requests by [Spanish rural affairs ministry] state secretary Josep Puxeu and Monsanto, post requests renewed US government support of Spain's science-based agricultural biotechnology position through high-level US government intervention."

It also emerges that Spain and the US have worked closely together to persuade the EU not to strengthen biotechnology laws. In one cable, the embassy in Madrid writes: "If Spain falls, the rest of Europe will follow."

The cables show that not only did the Spanish government ask the US to keep pressure on Brussels but that the US knew in advance how Spain would vote, even before the Spanish biotech commission had reported."

The Guardian also mentions leaked cables from the US embassy in the Vatican, quoting a cable from 2008:

"Opportunities exist to press the issue with the Vatican, and in turn to influence a wide segment of the population in Europe and the developing world."

The Guardian also reports that,

"[I]n a setback, the US embassy found that its closest ally on GM, Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the powerful Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace and the man who mostly represents the pope at the United Nations, had withdrawn his support for the US.
"A Martino deputy told us recently that the cardinal had co-operated with embassy Vatican on biotech over the past two years in part to compensate for his vocal disapproval of the Iraq war and its aftermath – to keep relations with the USG [US government] smooth. According to our source, Martino no longer feels the need to take this approach," says the cable."

Fred Branfman, writing for AlterNet sums it up when he says that the most terrifying revelation of Wikileaks is just how much our government lies to us, referring to our government and military as a "vast lying machine that perpetuates mass murder in our name."

This is true in the case of manipulating and forcing countries to implement the Monsanto agenda as well. In fact, I've often stated that genetically modified foods is a major threat to the very existence of human life on this planet.

Genetically Modified Corn High on the Agenda
One of the genetically modified (GM) products of particular interest appears to have been Monsanto's first GM corn, known as MON 810. This was the first genetically modified seed to be approved for widespread planting.

Today, GM corn currently represents over 90 percent of all corn acreage in the US.

Europe, however, has been slow to accept this and other GM crops. The European Commission has given GM crops its stamp of approval, but the food industry has remained resistant as European consumers were, and still are, concerned about potential ill effects.

Some European countries have even decided to ban GM crops within their own borders regardless of the EU Commission's approval.

The Health Hazards of GM Corn
There's very convincing evidence that genetically modified foods spell nothing but trouble for your health. As Smith discusses in his interview, scientists have discovered a number of health problems related to genetically modified foods in general, and GM corn in particular.

However, these studies have been repeatedly ignored by both the European Food Safety Authority and the US FDA...

Monsanto's GM corn is genetically engineered to ward off rootworm by producing its own pesticide, a toxin called Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt toxin).

In a 2005 article, Jeffrey Smith describes the findings from animal studies, in which rats developed a number of significant reactions when fed Bt corn, including:

Increased basophils, which is a typical indication of allergies
Increased lymphocytes and white blood cells, which is an indication of a response to infections, toxins and various diseases including cancer
Anemia
Blood pressure problems
Increased blood sugar levels
Kidney inflammation
Liver and kidney lesions, and other changes
In Germany and the Philippines, GM corn has also been blamed for the deaths of buffaloes, cows, horses, and poultry.

Damaging Research Remains Ignored
One researcher deserving of particular mention here is Dr. Arpad Pusztai, a biologist with more than 300 articles and 12 books to his credit and considered the world's top expert in his field.

In the early 1990's, he worked on a $3 million grant from the U.K. government, with a mission to design the system for safety testing of GMOs. But when he accidentally discovered that genetically modified (GM) foods are inherently unsafe, he quickly became the industry's bad-boy poster child, setting an example for other scientists thinking about blowing the whistle.

The results of Pusztai's work were supposed to become the required testing protocols for all of Europe. But when he fed supposedly harmless GM potatoes to rats, he made a shocking discovery.

Within just 10 days, the animals developed:

Potentially pre-cancerous cell growth
Smaller brains, livers, and testicles
Partially atrophied livers
Damaged immune systems
Moreover, the cause was almost certainly caused by side effects from the process of genetic engineering itself, not from the added material.

Jeffrey Smith explains:

"[H]e was testing with rats that were eating the genetically modified potato, engineered to produce an insecticidal protein. But he also tested other groups of rats that were eating natural potatoes that were spiked with that same protein, and then a third group that was just eating natural potatoes without the insecticide.

Only the group that ate the genetically engineered potato got these problems, not the group that was eating the potatoes along with the insecticide. So it clearly wasn't the insecticide; it was somehow the process of genetic engineering.

That process creates massive collateral damage inside the DNA of the plant. Hundreds and thousands of mutations can be formed. There could be hundreds or thousands of genes that are natural genes in the plant that change their levels of expression.

For example, with MON 810 corn, they found there's a gene that is normally silent that is switched on and now creates an allergen in corn.

They found 43 different genes that were significantly up-regulated or down-regulated, meaning that there are massive changes in these crops, and they're not being evaluated by the U.S.—by the FDA or any other regulatory authority around the world, before being put onto the market."

It's quite feasible that the GM foods on the market—which are created from the same process—might have similar affects on humans, yet all our regulatory agencies are turning a blind eye!

Worse yet, researchers have been actively silenced to hide this information.

Dr. Pusztai, for example, was interviewed on TV and became a hero at his institute -- for two days.

Then, following phone calls from the pro-GMO prime minister's office, he was fired from his post and further silenced with threats of a lawsuit. His team was dismantled, and the protocols he developed were never implemented.

Eventually, an invitation to speak before Parliament lifted his gag order and his research was published in the prestigious Lancet in 1999.

Other Examples of Dangerous GM Foods
In addition to corn, there are six other GM foods currently on the market. And all of them have been linked to potential health problems.

Soy -- GM soy is highly allergenic and accounts for about 90 percent of soybeans planted in the U.S. It is present in about 70 percent of all food products found in American supermarkets. Rats fed GM soy had increased mortality, lower birth weight, and damaged sperm and reproductive ability.
Cottonseed (used in vegetable cooking oils) -- Sheep that grazed on GM cotton eventually died after developing severe irritation and black patches in their intestines, and enlarged bile ducts.
Canola -- Three different mutant weeds resistant to three common herbicides – Monsanto's Roundup, Cyanamid's Pursuit, and Aventis' Liberty – were produced when Canadian farmers began planting GM canola seeds.
Sugar from sugar beets -- Sugar beets easily cross pollinate, meaning GM beets could "infect" organic varieties and destroy their value.
Hawaiian papaya -- GM papaya was introduced in 1998. After six years, a test was conducted on 20,000 papaya seeds. Eighty percent were taken from organic farms. Half of the seeds were found to be genetically modified! This means that it's virtually impossible to safeguard non-GM crops from GM crops.
Zucchini and yellow squash -- GM squash contains 68 times less beta-carotene and four times more sodium than non-GM varieties.
How You Can Avoid GM Foods, and Help Others Do the Same
Most people want to avoid GM foods but it is virtually impossible to do so, since the government prevents GMO labeling.

However, Jeffery Smith has compiled an excellent resource for you to avoid the government block of information. It is the free Non-GMO Shopping Guide. Print it out, and share it with your friends and family, and post it to your social networks.

Alternatively, you can download a free iPhone application, available in the iTunes store. You can find it by searching for ShopNoGMO in the applications.

If you're feeling really ambitious you can also order the Non-GMO Shopping Tips brochure in bulk, and bring them to the grocery stores in your area. Talk to the owner or manager and get permission to post them in their store.

For More Information
Jeffrey Smith, the executive director of the Institute for Responsible Technology has authored two excellent books on this topic which I highly recommend reading:

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies about the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating
Genetic Roulette: The Documented Health Risks of Genetically Engineered Foods.
There are also a number of great films and lectures available, including:

Hidden Dangers in Kid's Meals
Your Milk on Drugs - Just Say No!
Everything You Have to Know About Dangerous Genetically Modified Foods
For timely updates, join the Non-GMO Project on Facebook, or follow them on Twitter.

It's quite clear that our government will NOT take a stand and protect you from these dangerous foods. On the contrary, it appears they're actively backing Monsanto's agenda to flood all markets with their genetically modified wares—without any proof of safety whatsoever.

So please, do your homework. Together, we as consumers have the power to stop them! All we need is about five percent of consumers to simply stop buying GM foods, and the food industry would have to reconsider their source of ingredients.

Keep educating yourself on this issue, and help others do the same.




Related Links:
Why GMOs Will Only Make the Global Food Crisis Worse

The Health Hazards of GM Corn

Major Threat to Human Fertility and Very Existence of Human Life on Earth


View Comments (245) POST YOUR COMMENT



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Many have long suspected that U.S. policy on genetically modified (GM) organisms was being influenced by the multinational corporations that profit from genetic engineering and the export-oriented agribusiness. However, recently released Wikileaks cables document just how close that relationship has become.

The U.S. Department of State has virtually become an agency for promoting the private interests of the Monsanto Corporation.

As European social movements pressure their governments for an ongoing moratorium on GM seeds and foods, Monsanto and other biotech corporations have been pushing to find new market footholds, using hybrids even in impoverished Haiti following the January 12, 2010 earthquake. They have been pursuing such goals in collaboration with USAID, the U.S. State Department and the Gates Foundation Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA).

According to Netline:

"The collusion of the Gates Foundation with Monsanto corporation is no accident, as high level officials leading AGRA are former Monsanto executives. The recent purchase by AGRA of $500,000 worth in Monsanto stocks was vivid proof of that close relationship. Despite many words by Gates officials since the inception of the AGRA agenda denying that GMO seeds would be used as part of AGRA, their close relationship with Monsanto has now been revealed to be a key element in their agronomic 'new green revolution' strategy."

In the video above, you can also see Gates' wrong-headed ideas about vaccines.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates was recently interviewed by CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta. Gates was attending the World Economic Forum to push his mission of eradicating polio by 2012. Gates, through his foundation, has pledged $10 billion to provide vaccinations to children around the world .

In the course of the interview, in regards to the vaccine-autism connection, Gates said:

"... [I]t's an absolute lie that has killed thousands of kids. Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn't have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today. And so the people who go and engage in those anti-vaccine efforts -- you know, they, they kill children. It's a very sad thing, because these vaccines are important."

How can someone so smart also be so confused about this issue? Unfortunately, that may actually be part of the problem.

Bill Gates may be one of the most destructive "do-gooders" on the planet because he is rich enough to get what he wants and he has a high opinion of his own intelligence. It is hard enough fighting Big Pharma, Big Government and Big Medicine on vaccines, but when another opponent is one of the wealthiest and most influential philanthropists in the world, it is even harder.

Fortunately, truth is more powerful than money. It is the only reason that the voices of parents and vaccine injured children continue to be heard above the relentless promotion of lies by the wealthy and powerful.

Sources:
Netline January 2011

CNN February 4, 2011



Dr. Mercola's Comments:


As I discussed last month, Wikileaks has revealed just how deeply entrenched the US government has become with Monsanto. It's long been known that the government was being unduly influenced, but the leaked cables revealed the reality is far worse than expected; the US Department of State is actively promoting the private interests of Monsanto across the world.

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), and the US Trade Representative also have a special set of revolving doors' leading straight to Monsanto, which has allowed this transnational giant to gain such phenomenal influence.

It is this type of government infiltration that allowed genetically modified (GM) alfalfa to be approved without any restrictions at all, despite the protests of the organic community and public comments from a quarter or a million concerned citizens...

As if that's not enough, Monsanto now also has one of the wealthiest and most influential "philanthropists" supporting their agenda and spreading misleading propaganda, namely Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft.

In addition, in the CNN interview above Gates also muddies the waters with his personal, misguided opinions on vaccines. Between his close ties to Monsanto and his aggressive pro-vaccine stance—without regard for safety on either issue—Gates may just be one of the most destructive "do-gooders" on the planet.

The Close Alliance Between Gates Foundation and Monsanto
As revealed by previous Wikileaks documents, the Bush administration conspired to find ways to retaliate against Europe for refusing to use genetically modified (GM) seeds, mainly by engaging in aggressive trade wars against reluctant nations.

The Guardian recently reported that the "cables show US diplomats working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto." The cables also revealed that the US has worked closely with Spain to persuade the EU to not strengthen their biotechnology laws. In one cable, the embassy in Madrid wrote: "If Spain falls, the rest of Europe will follow."

But it doesn't end there.

As reported by Netline, Monsanto and other biotech companies have collaborated with the Gates Foundation via the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA) to inject genetically modified crops into Africa. The Gates Foundation has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to AGRA, and in 2006 Robert Horsch was hired for the AGRA project. Horsch was a Monsanto executive for 25 years.

In a previous Huffington Post article, Eric Holt Gimenez sums it up nicely:

"Under the guise of "sustainability" the [Gates] Foundation has been spearheading a multi-billion dollar effort to transform African into a GMO-friendly continent. The public relations flagship for this effort is the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA), a massive Green Revolution project."

It would be naive at this point to think that these collaborations are designed to solve any other problem than how to help Monsanto monopolize the world's food supply with expensive GM seeds that have to be purchased each year and require expensive chemical treatment.

After all, if you own the rights to all the food grown everywhere, you literally rule the world...

Gates tried to keep his ties to genetically modified seeds on the down-low, but the issue got major attention last year when Monsanto tried to inject its hybrid seeds into Haiti after a massive earthquake devastated the island. Fortunately, the Haitian farmers were too smart to fall for this devious scheme. Farmer groups criticized the Gates Foundation's involvement, committed to burning the GM seed, and called for a march to protest Monsanto's presence in Haiti.

Social movements around the world are pressuring their governments for a moratorium on unproven GM seeds and foods, yet the US is giving Monsanto free reign, aiding and abetting their agenda, and the Gates Foundation is starting to look more and more like just another arm to further Monsanto's reach.

Gates' Financial Conflicts of Interest Sheds Additional Light on his Foundation's Agenda
In the second quarter of 2010, the Gates Foundation purchased 500,000 shares of Monsanto stock with an estimated worth of $23.1 million.

In August of last year, AGRA-Watch wrote:

"The Foundation's direct investment in Monsanto is problematic on two primary levels," said Dr. Phil Bereano, University of Washington Professor Emeritus and recognized expert on genetic engineering.

"First, Monsanto has a history of blatant disregard for the interests and well-being of small farmers around the world, as well as an appalling environmental track record. The strong connections to Monsanto cast serious doubt on the Foundation's heavy funding of agricultural development in Africa and purported goal of alleviating poverty and hunger among small-scale farmers. Second, this investment represents an enormous conflict of interests."

It seems clear that despite the denials that GM seeds would be used as part of AGRA's strategy, the close ties between the Gates Foundation, AGRA, and Monsanto, and the financial conflicts of interest between the Gates Foundation and Monsanto appear to be "a key element of AGRA's "new green revolution" strategy," Netline writes.

"The interlocking and corrupting nature of that agenda as documented further by Wikileaks release of US State Department cables should be of concern to all people of good will concerned about the future biodiversity of crop seeds in the world.

It is an undisputed fact, no matter what one might think of the merits of GMO seeds, that transnational concentration in market share and power inevitably means a diminishing of crop biodiversity, in many cases for all time, as seed varieties are lost in the shuffle. That is the bottom line.

And that is why small-scale farming, based in and loyal to the communities they nourish, must prevail as the model for the future of agriculture! Seeds have always been shared freely among farmers, guaranteeing a biodiverse basis for farming everywhere. Without that basis, there can be no food sovereignty and therefore fewer and fewer practitioners (family farmers) on the ground capable of slowing global warming and feeding the hungry of the world through sustainable land usage and reforestation.

It is our duty, even as community gardeners, to learn how to save seed and to do so. We thus represent the front line primary defense against crop variety loss, famine and pestilence for future generations!"

I agree.

Genetically modified crops represent one of the most significant threats to life on this planet and must be stopped. Unfortunately, there's no shortage of smart men misusing their intelligence. Bill Gates is just one of the most prominent in this group.

How Could Bill Gates Be so Confused About Vaccines?
Moving on to the second topic of this comment: Gates' vaccine opinions. It is very difficult to watch Bill Gates "speak out" about vaccines, knowing he's directly responsible for using his considerable wealth and influence to advance one-size-fits all vaccine policies that lack good science to back them up.

However, if you're savvy to the way this game is played, you'll realize that the absolute and derogatory terms he uses to defend his actions—such as labeling vaccine safety advocates as "baby killers"—actually reveals the level of pressure and mounting panic the vaccine industry is feeling right now.

They're definitely worried, or else they wouldn't have to resort to using people like Bill Gates to label you a killer if you question vaccine safety or want to make voluntary vaccine choices, in an effort to shame or scare you back in line.

He also spouts off the same tired propaganda speech about how Dr. Andrew Wakefield is somehow singularly responsible for creating mass-hysteria about the link between vaccines and developmental delays, including autism. This is beyond simplistic, and does in no way describe the truth about the problems with poor science being used to pass laws requiring everyone to use more and more vaccines that are both unsafe and ineffective. Anyone who has read even a fraction of my articles on vaccines will see that trying to hinge the entire anti-vaccine movement on the results of one study published in one medical journal is ridiculous.

The consolation is that the awful truth is more powerful than Gates ill-conceived attempts at quenching safety advocates.

But what's his motivation for promoting vaccines, you may ask?

Well, you have to remember that years ago, when the US government slammed Microsoft with anti-trust violations, he and his wife, Melinda, soon thereafter created their foundation and partnered with the US Department of Health and Human Services and the pharmaceutical industry to "save" the children of the world from infectious diseases—through the use of vaccines.

It appears as though, in return for a slap on the wrist, Gates was roped into the vaccine-promoting business, which likely explains why he would make such appalling statements against those who have valid and significant concerns about the safety of vaccines.

However, in the end, truth is more powerful than money. This is the reason why the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is still in operation and why my voice and the many voices of parents of vaccine-injured children continue to be heard above the relentless promotion of lies by the wealthy and powerful.

We have our work cut out for us, both in the fight against the dangerous promotion of genetically modified food crops and the mass-use of vaccines without proper safety evaluations. But sanity and reason can still win, through the propagation and dissemination of information. Below I'll provide helpful guidance for avoiding both GM foods and unwanted vaccines.

How You Can Avoid GM Foods, and Help Others Do the Same
I urge you to print out and use the Non-GMO Shopping Guide, created by the Institute for Responsible Technology. Share it with your friends and family, and post it to your social networks. You can also download a free iPhone application, available in the iTunes store. You can find it by searching for ShopNoGMO in the applications.

If you're feeling really ambitious you can order the Non-GMO Shopping Tips brochure in bulk and distribute them to the grocery stores in your area. Talk to the owner or manager and get permission to post them in their store.

For more information, I highly recommend reading the following two books, authored by Jeffrey Smith, the executive director of the Institute for Responsible Technology:

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies about the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating
Genetic Roulette: The Documented Health Risks of Genetically Engineered Foods.
There are also a number of great films and lectures available, including:

Hidden Dangers in Kid's Meals
Your Milk on Drugs - Just Say No!
Everything You Have to Know About Dangerous Genetically Modified Foods
For timely updates, join the Non-GMO Project on Facebook, or follow them on Twitter.

Please, do your homework. Together, we as consumers have the power to stop the biotech industry from destroying our food supply, the future of our children, and the earth as a whole. All we need is about five percent of consumers to simply stop buying GM foods, and the food industry would have to reconsider their source of ingredients.

Do Your Homework Before Vaccinating for Anything
Personally, I'm not anti-vaccine but rather pro-education and pro-vaccine safety. I also believe it is extremely important to have the right to choose preventive health options and to be allowed to exercise informed consent to taking ANY medical risk, including making voluntary decisions about what you want to inject into your child, and yourself, and when.

If you choose to vaccinate selectively, you don't have to reject use of all vaccines. You have a number of options, one of which is use a more sensible vaccination schedule—one that will not subject your child to multiple vaccines simultaneously, or in quick succession, as a newborn.

Dr. Donald Miller is a cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle and a member of Doctors for Disaster Preparedness. Using a more sensible, "user-friendly" vaccination schedule, Dr. Miller advises the following:

No vaccinations until your child is two years old.
No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
No live virus vaccines.
Dr. Miller used to advise giving inactivated polio vaccine and inactivated bacterial vaccines like pertusis, tetanus and diphteria in separate shots, but, unfortunately, the drug companies selling vaccines no longer make separate vaccines available. The pertussis, tetanus and diphteria vaccines today only come in the form of combination shots like DTaP and DT for younger children, or Tdap and Td for teens and adults.

Dr. Bob Sears, a California pediatrician and author of The Vaccine Book, supports informed consent and selective vaccine choices. He offers a roadmap for those who choose to vaccinate their children using an alternative vaccination schedule that includes spacing vaccines out over a longer period of time.

Your pediatrician will probably not agree with this schedule, but if you have reviewed the evidence and still feel your child should be given some vaccines, it could be a far safer alternative to the standard vaccination schedule.

Also remember your opt-out options. Although all 50 states have vaccination requirements, all states provide exemptions for medical reasons, and 48 states allow exemptions for sincerely held religious beliefs. Another 18 states allow parents to opt out for personal, conscientious or philosophical beliefs as well.

For more information, please see How to Legally Avoid Unwanted Immunizations of All Kinds.

Above all, educate yourself on the risks and complications of the vaccines that your doctor or pediatrician insists on administering., as well as the vaccine laws in your state. I have hundreds of articles detailing the dangers of various vaccines on this site, and you also have the entire internet at your disposal.

One of your most valuable allies on the net is the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC)—the American vaccine safety watchdog. Their site contains loads of carefully researched, accurate information about vaccines, along with late-breaking news relating to laws, mandates, recalls, safety issues and more.

In some states, legal exemptions for vaccination, such as the religious and personal or conscientious belief exemptions are under attack and being targeted for elimination by drug companies and other special interest groups lobbying state legislators. Please sign up for the NVIC free Advocacy Portal and stay tuned into to what is happening in YOUR state and if you need to take action now to protect your legal right to make voluntary choices about vaccination for yourself and your children.




Related Links:
Latest Vaccine News

Bill Gates to Waste $10 Billion on Vaccine Research?

Why are Monsanto Insiders Now Appointed to Protect Your Food Safety?

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Can they shutdown the internet?

Post  Shelby on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:35 pm

> The question is will we have communications when all these
> turbulences happen? I doubt it. When the SOB's position is
> threatened, they will not want to give the enemy open communication
> lines. What then? You won't even know what your metal is worth on the
> market, if there is still a market.

Technically speaking they can't entirely shutdown the internet. There is a post on my forum where I debated an expert on this and he submitted to my conclusion:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/t112p90-computers#3789

The routing protocol of the internet is inherently decentralized. They know this, they even tested it in Iran and middle east countries, and they realized they couldn't completely turn off the flow of information:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/t112p105-computers#4121

So it seems now they are trying to pass laws compelling the ISPs to keep records of our identity and our IP address history. They can't turn it off, but they can use it as an informational gathering tool.

I want you to understand that the government never intended for the internet to happen, here is the true story. Al Gore didn't create the internet, hackers at DARPA did by lying to the government:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/t112p165-computers#4428

TPTB has to be very cautious, because if they push too hard to block information flow on the mainstream portions of the internet, it will incentivize 1000s of hackers to accelerate efforts towards a P2P version of HTTP. Once that happens, it will be infinitely more impossible for the government to stop and track information flow. That is coming anyway.

Also TPTB has to be very cautious, because if they try to block free PHYSICAL (I am not referring to their paper futures) markets for gold and silver, this will encourage robust black markets to become popular, thus pulling more people out of the official tax and theft financial system.

In short, TPTB control the world of decline and destruction. If they stomp on those larger things that are growing fast because they are semi-decentralized, then they will just cause increased demand for those technologically super-decentralized things that are smaller and growing even faster (saplings grow fast to be tree, but trees don't grow to the moon). TPTB control those who want to be destroyed because they depend on centralization-- they don't control those who choose to be decentralized.

Be aware though that communication and things in general could get quite inconvenient with significantly more downtime, as technologies catch up to new realities. As you know, I am trying to fundamentally accelerate the decentralized computer technologies.

=====================
--------ADD----------
=====================



>> > That's a good way of putting it. But they aim to destroy them.
>>
>>
>>Agreed they aim to destroy those who depend on them (the centralization).
>>They can not destroy those who are decentralized.
>
> But I meant it the other way. They seek to destroy the decentralized
> ones, because that is the enemy. The cattle need not be destroyed,
> they are at most culled to a level that pleases them.


Disagree. They know they can not harm those who are sufficiently decentralized. What they seek is to trick people from being decentralized. They fear that we will discover how to be decentralized, which is why the USA constitution scared them, why the rise of independent media on the internet scares them, etc..

The function that TPTB serve is to cull humanity of those who refuse to be decentralized, i.e. those who refuse to come out of the Great Harlot. They cull as many as they can until it starts to wake up the other ones, then they back off and go into another round of credit expansion.


>
>>Now you are going to hate this, but this is exactly what 1 Samuel 8
>>predicted, and the stupid people ignored it even back them in the time of
>>Moses.
>
> That's religion and not applicable (to me). I find it irrelevant.
> Human situations will always repeat. So what?


I am trying to tell you that for me God is nothing more than decentralization-- a law of physics. It is not creature in my image or any other fantasy.

And this is precisely what Jesus said in Matthew 6:5, where he said to be the most free and rewarded, you must pray (think) in your room alone where no one else can see you. In other words, decentralized.

Decentralization also implies that you won't impinge or harm others. That is love.

Organized religion or philosophy of any form is thus evil in my view, because it is not decentralized. It molds minds and binds people together in propaganda where they can't think for themselves.

=====================
--------ADD----------
=====================



Indeed, and even HTTPS can be compromised by a man-in-the-middle attack. So they can see everything, but they may not be able to make sense of all that data. If they know a specific target, they can make sense of it.

However, if you and I exchange public keys face-to-face, they can not read our secure communication. The requirement is that I am sure it is your key that I am using when I encode my communication to you, and not some man-in-the-middle.

But when we move to P2P, then we won't need encryption per se, because if they can't get inside of every computer, then they can't see how these pieces of data are assembled to make a coherent piece.

>> So it seems now they are trying to pass laws compelling the ISPs to keep records of our identity and our IP address history.
>> They can't turn it off, but they can use it as an informational gathering tool.
>
> They already have this in effect in US. ISPs must retain subscriber
> connection records for X amount of time.
>
> Not to mention the use of Echelon
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29> and
> similar monitoring systems such as Carnivore
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29>.
>
> Many ISPs have given in to DHS requests to install Carnivore type
> systems in the ISP data centers. Presently, these systems record
> everything, but no govt agency can retrieve the data without a warrant
> (supposedly they need a warrant). Actually, a warrant is required to
> "turn on" the monitoring system and only for the targets named in the
> warrant. For PR reasons, the major ISPs have announced their rejection
> of DHS implementing such systems, but IMHO the ISPs have given in to
> pressure by govt agencies and won't admit it publicly. Every
> corporation has executives that can be easily blackmailed by govt
> agencies.
>
> It would be very easy to stealth such a system from ISP data center
> employees too. All that's needed is to create a profile for a
> non-existant ISP employee who has admin privledges. This profile could
> login remotely and an app like Carnivore could do it stuff over the
> wire, undetected by other data center employees. Even if an employeed
> sniffed the traffivc he'd just see encrypted garbage and would not know
> what the traffic was.
>
> Ever see that movie "Enemy of the State" with Will Smith & Gene
> Hackman? Hackman's character explains how the govt monitors
> communications. The movie show satellite technology that is truly
> Hollywood, but there is real stuff depicted in the movie, such as govt
> installations that do nothing but monitor communication traffic. There
> are several such facilities here in the DC area, and every major
> Internet hub has such a facility nearby. One of the first major hubs
> was here in Tysons Corner, VA on the 7th floor of a high rise. The
> entire 6th floor was DoJ.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty How free we are not

Post  Shelby on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Instead of "Land of the free, home of the brave", we have become "Land of the cowards, home of the slaves".

http://www.infowars.com/our-troops-do-not-protect-our-freedom-and-we-should-stop-thanking-them-for-doing-so/


  1. You are not allowed to drink raw milk, no matter how healthy it is, because under certain rare conditions may cause health issues), but you do have the right to smoke chemically addicting cigarettes that when used as directed WILL KILL YOU!
  2. You don’t have the right to stop your food supply from being contaminated and genetically manipulated, leaving you with no alternative.
  3. You don’t have the right to collect rain water or grow your own vegetables to feed your family.
  4. You have no right to stop corporations from poisoning your air and water.
  5. You have no right to treat your ailments naturally because your government has declared that the only way to become healthy is by medications and treatments that will produce big profits for corporations. Healthy food can not benefit your health and if it does the FDA will classify it as a drug.
  6. You have no right to raise your child without injecting toxins and dangerous chemicals directly into their blood streams.
  7. During the Bush/Cheney administration you had no right to free speech. Special zones called “free speech” zones were created and kept far from Bush and Cheney where those who wanted to speak as free Americans could gather.
  8. You are not free to exchange goods and services on your own terms. You must use Federal Reserve Notes, which is NOT U.S. CURRENCY. It is a system of money created and maintained, unconstitutionally, by a cadre of private banks.
  9. You are not free to feed homeless people and if you are homeless you are not free to be fed by your fellow citizens.
  10. We are not free to know about or have any say about secret activities in which our rulers partake. For example what terrible weapons they create, what biological or chemical programs that may accidentally or purposely destroy us all, how they set up and instigate wars and conflict as well as events that justify actions for which they want to take but have no legitimate justifications.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty We are born into "citizenship" which is servitude

Post  Shelby on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:45 pm

US Constitution was abolished in 1868; United States is a corporation.

> USC Title 28, Sec. 3002, Par. 15

Ah yes, that is the correct section:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html

(15) “United States” means—
(A) a Federal corporation;

I thought I will would bring some important information back to the top of this forum from several years ago, since many of you may have missed it. I have made a new post at infowars.com about this:

http://www.infowars.com/cops-confiscate-cameras-at-ohio-congressmans-town-hall/comment-page-1/#comment-2679165

shm wrote:
You folks are so ignorant of this country and the reality of the situation.

The reality is the government is a federal corporation, and you do not have any rights on their property.

The constitution was suspended at the time of the Civil War, and they set up "Temporary Emergency Courts" and they have been ruling by executive order ever since.

You learn this if you have taken a court case to the Federal Appeals court, because you have to follow protocol and address the court properly as the "Temporary Emergency Court", as this guy did:

bibleprophesy . org / squaw10 . htm (remove the spaces)
bibleprophesy . org / squaw . htm

If you review the forum threads in depth at the links at bottom of this post, you discover that under the original USA constitution, we were sovereign individuals (citizens of the "United States of America"). But since the 14th Amendment in 1868, we have the optional right to be "citizens of United States", where the "United States" is a federal corporation that includes the IRS, Fed, US treasury, etc. The law of that corporation tries to say that we are born into this involutary slavery (born citizens), and tries to make it very difficult for us to opt out and remain part of the original republic.

So to avoid income taxes, to avoid all dealings with the corrupt "foreign" power on our soil, we must not use a Social Security number, which means we must not use driver's license, banks, fiat, etc..

Realize the Constitution gave the federal government the right to purchase land and control over any land it owns. The federal government is a corporation, especially since United States referred to in the Constitution went to sleep in 1861 and was replaced by a British corporation in 1867, which is operated by the Exchequor of Britian.

http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=504
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?FORUM_ID=23
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=552

Jason Hommel 04-12-2008, 06:47 AM wrote:It does not matter if the income tax is constitutional or not if they don't rule by the constitution.

My understanding is that the constitution was suspended at the time of the Civil War, and they set up "Temporary Emergency Courts" and they have been ruling by executive order ever since.

You learn this if you have taken a court case to the Federal Appeals court, because you have to follow protocol and address the court properly as the "Temporary Emergency Court", as I did.

See here:
http://bibleprophesy.org/squaw.htm

And here for the proper title to the appeal:
http://bibleprophesy.org/squaw10.htm



Shelby 03-29-2008, 07:39 AM wrote:http://ecclesia.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=23

If you review those threads in depth, you discover that under the original USA constitution, we were sovereign individuals (citizens of the "United States of America"). But since the 14th Amendment in 1868, we have the optional right to be "citizens of United States", where the "United States" is a federal corporation that includes the IRS, Fed, US treasury, etc. The law of that corporation tries to say that we are born into this involutary slavery (born citizens), and tries to make it very difficult for us to opt out and remain part of the original republic.

So to avoid income taxes, to avoid all dealings with the corrupt "foreign" power on our soil, we must not use a Social Security number, which means we must not use driver's license, banks, fiat, etc..

The 666 system is effectively already in place for the most part, and 99.99999% of us are voluntarily using it.

Dig into those threads, you will find fascinating links and information there.

I feel a longing to my Cherokee bloodline...

=======================
Received this reply in email
=======================

I saw lots of info on the U.S. being a corporation several years ago including a
fascinating video and lecture by a U.K. carpenter whose video demonstrated how he
carefully chooses his words when dealing with the cops so as to not enter into a
contract with them. The cops were on foot patrol and were known to snoop in the
yards of private homes and they needed to engage in a certain kind of dialogue with
the occupants in order to trespass. This was probably 5 or 7 years ago so maybe
those rules of engagement are no longer abided by now that the global police state
is tightening its grip.

I also read other articles and skimmed through the book Hologram of Liberty, some of
these writers assert that the U.S. was surreptitiously set up as a corporation from
America's beginning. It makes sense that the Masonic and Illuminati interests
embedded in the government steered much of the language used in developing U.S. law
in the very early days of the Republic.

By the way, I only recently learned from The Daily Bell that the "City of London" is
a sovereign territory set up by the banking dynasties and it is one of three such
territories that apparently form a triad of power centers for the ruling elite with
the other two being Washington D.C. (military arm) and the Vatican (religious). I
am including a link to a short youtube video on the City of London.

https://youtu.be/96XfYaBcap4

Shelby
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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty World Currency on track for 2018

Post  Shelby on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:20 am

He says they've reaffirmed recently they are on schedule for Phoenix by 2018, but this will first involve regional blocs like the EU, where nations loose their autonomous legal capability to print money, and by 2025 is the big push to a complete world currency and government.

http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/guest-expert/2011/09/02/dennis-l-cuddy-phd/the-master-plan-a-global-currency-and-global-central-bank
http://www.google.com/search?q=phoenix+2018 (original Economist article)
http://www.oldthinkernews.com/?p=496

I don't know if this is significant, the Abomination of the Desolation (i.e. Dome of the Rock) in the Bible, predicts that Jesus will return in 2024:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/t157-dome-of-the-rock-2023-jesus-returns

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Former BP CEO Haywood, Nat Rothschild, Gaddafi, & George Osborne British central bank

Post  Shelby on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:25 pm

Connect the dots on the above names, also Glencore IPO, etc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathaniel_Philip_Rothschild&oldid=442095264#Controversies

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chancellor_of_the_Exchequer&oldid=446226452

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-24/tony-hayward-gets-a-life-post-bp-as-investors-write-blank-check.html

So who do you think is driving the Arab Spring? Hint: Nat Rothschild.

And who does Wikileaks Assange work for? Hint: Nat Rothschild.

And who does Seth Gadaffi really work for? Hint: Nat Rothschild.

The power circles are very intertwinded, and you can see that all they know about is industrial capital (they can't control knowledge):

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/3a8cd690-1ebd-11e0-a1d1-00144feab49a.html#axzz1X5OT0Q4l

The nature of competition in large capex projects of industrial capital, is the need to control the government in order to have competitive leverage over competitors, and to insure stability. Also central control over large swaths of resource production, enables large scale manipulation gyrations, hedging, etc..

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty My 5 best questions about 9/11

Post  Shelby on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Can anyone answer these?

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3722&cpage=2#comment-322738

Shelby wrote:
I am not following events too closely lately, but I did read the first responders were not allowed to attend.

I am not going to press this point beyond raising it, and observing any feedback. I feel we owe it to the victims, to do good science.

I have few questions which I would appreciate if anyone can apply the scientific method and give me sound scientific answers, not hand waving. Trying not to sound like a kook, and I am not implying that I support totalitarian regimes. Just that the data that I am aware of appears to be inconsistent.

1. How was it possible that our F15s were not able to intercept these planes, given that a commercial airplane turning off course and becoming non-respondent is I assume an emergency actionable offense for air traffic control to report? The plane that hit the Pentagon did so over 1 hour after the first hit WTC. Why is all the evidence not available for peer review? I remember the AGW scam, and the importance of peer review to good science.

2. Why was the BBC reporting both on the text on the screen and the reporters verbal announcement that WTC7 had fallen, while I was watching this with the building still standing in the background behind the reporter? I can provide a link to this video if anyone doubts.

3. Why was it reported Bin Laden's body dropped in the ocean without a single photo of public evidence to eliminate all possible doubt? What is the explanation for interviews (I have seen, links can be provided), of local villagers saying that the helicopter never landed at the compound, that they farmed vegetables inside the compound, and that Bin Laden was never there.

4. Why are independent (peer review) investigators not allowed access to the evidence, specifically the structural steel debris etc? Is this good science?

5. Why is 9/11 so conveniently correlated with the governments massive onslaught of the destruction of rights, including Habeas corpus, sexual violation at airports purportedly expanded to include schools, other mass transport, entertainment events, etc.. I am not aware of statistical history, but it seems I see an upsurge of prosecuting people for filming the police, including one case seeking in life in prison. The state national guards have been federalized and used to fight wars not on the homeland. Local police have been deputized by the feds. Local clergy have been deputized by the feds. Etc.. Is this all just circumstantial, incidental without directed intention? Where is the peer review of all these developments?

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty checkmate

Post  Shelby on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:42 pm

Here you will learn how to out-chess any one in any debate you ever have. Always set your enemy up to argue for the position he is against. First you draw him in with bait, then you let him dig his own hole.

I hope you all listened to the recording in the link at the very end of this post. The F15 squadron leader says in real-time that the commanding officer ordered them out over the Atlantic ocean instead of towards the Pentagon.

Read the entire linked blog page for background evidence assertions I made.

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3722&cpage=3#comment-323045

Shelby wrote:
The intention of my prior post and this one, is to put an end my blogging.

I have not lied, nor do I intend to imply a top-down conspiracy on 9/11. With hard evidence, the conspiracy theories (speculation) will mute.

The drug war as a front for drug running and the attacks on gun rights, is not a top-down conspiracy, quite the opposite, no one is in control of the Olsen scramble.

dishonest or insane

Provide proof that I knowingly told untruth or my medical records. else you are arguing both for and against speculative assertions.

wrecked your argument ... the WTC1 tennant

No. I want the good science of investigating potentially relevant data, not doing a google search on personality. The relevant data is the alledged 20 years of nearby air force base activity reports.

All of our defense measures were ... from outside the country

Hard data, not hearsay subjective noise.

rampant speculation without evidence

Ditto the official reports, which will remain the case until a statistically significant sample of the structural steel. Occam's Razor doesn't imply the scientific method, which requires the falsifiable hypothesis. We can't falsify lost evidence.

Telling us all witnesses are lying leaves you nowhere

Personal truth is speculation. Statistically significant evidence is science.

The “government” cannot prove it was not involved

To say I am not satisfied with the science, doesn't logically mean that I am implying I am implicating the government. If A not proven, doesn't mean B is implicated. The response of "how could it be possible for any other outcome...yadayada", is irrelevant.

Why do you want so desperately to believe that the American government concocted the 9/11 attacks?

Why do you make a false assumption about what I think?

trust his elders’ unanimous word

You are not my elder. You haven't provided complete government documents about activities and procedures.

Really? Where? Examples, please

You present some hard data first.

The winner of this argument understands technology is growing, and not the elder dinosaurs who clings to what is dying.

former senior executive at the F.A.A., ... on the condition that I not identify him

Hearsay is not admissible in court.

They were working with the Sauds’ enemy

Simplistic and one-dimensional speculation. Data?

Neither of us know. It is likely very complex, with competing interests within the various governments. You play checkers, and I play Spock's multi-level chess.

[Lockerbie] The major damage was in the lost plane

Killed may have included a joint team of CIA, FBI, and govt drug war agents related to the heroin trafficking out of the Bekaa Valley. Tangentially are Gary Webb's forensic expositions on the drug war's connection to drug trafficking.

what reporter ... would hold off on reporting it until it had been ... “vetted”?

Speculation. Investigate.

Would this be evidence of some kind of conspiracy?

Who here said it was.

actual protocol for handing hijackings

Thousands of military protocol documents and activity reports please, including Pentagon protection.

@Milhouse: you are unable to prove I KNOWINGLY stated an untruth. You are making wild speculation, given I simply typo-ed and forgot a single word "core". Many of my comments demonstrated that I often unintentionally omit words. And it doesn't change the statistical point. Here follows the relevant quote.

“only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250˚C [482˚F],” and no evidence that any of the core columns had reached even those temperatures (2005, p. 88).
NIST (2005) says that it “did not generalize these results, since the examined columns represented only 3 percent of the perimeter columns and 1 percent of the core columns from the fire floors”

which implies that the core got even hotter than that

@Jessica Boxer:
Feel free to call me immoral if you like.

It is not an issue of morality. As demonstrated by the recent revelations alleging two women in the CIA were able to stop information from reaching Counter-Terrorism chief Clarke, the so called oversight can fail, and it can be you one day on the waterboard. Armstrong's case is another example. But it is okay, I know this is what societies subconsciously tolerate. We will never stop humans from doing heinous acts of injustice.

My only hope of ending this phenomenon, is my open source technology work which I have already explained in the prior blogs. I want a technical solution, because as evident by comments here, it is impossible to convince people with logic. People only ultimately do (on the statistical aggregate) what the entropy forces them to do. Yeah I realize this comment will fly right over the head of most readers, so be it. My IQ is simply too high for them for ever keep up. It is lonely being 1 in 10,000+.

nice we finally agree on something

Ethically speaking I agree. Entropically speaking, this is natural apparently. Hope we can change it with technology, because I don't see much hope with logic and widespread IQ.

Speculation. Data?

If you accuse the government of a coverup

I have not accused the entire government of anything. Individuals do things. The government is an abstract.

All I want is science. You deploy your political strawmen and false dichotomy illogic, to obfuscate my call for science.

What does that even mean?

You don't know the difference between personal reality and statistical evidence?

@Milhouse: you've lost. Checkmate. Science doesn't make wild assertions, it collects data, then makes models of the statistically significant data. Goodbye.

If I’m not your elder, then you’ve just been caught in another lie

You may be older (I'm 46), but you are not my elder, meaning I disown you as a member of my grouping. It seems the degrees-of-freedom in your mind's logic capacity is limited to duality. Your logical errors are beyond 10 at last count.

eldercomparative of eld·er (Adjective)
1. (of one or more out of a group of related or otherwise associated people) Of a greater age

Killed may also have included a joint team of Martian, Tau Cetian, and Time Lord ambassadors

Haven't seen one data point of them ever boarding an airplane. Have you? Strange you imply that the probabilities are equal to my suggestion that we may not have all the data on who was on board the Lockerbie plane. This is the typical disinformation technique, to equate unequal things and draw attention away from inconvenient truths as follows.

While you obfuscate, you avoid explaining away that 1% of the core beams is not only statistically inconclusive, but is statistical vulnerable to (even unintentional) cherry picking, similar to medical trials that are not sufficiently randomized and thus unscientific.

I suppose you will next stoop to trying to dig up dirt on me personally, as if that somehow removes the non-science of the official reports.

Someone claims Norad, Fema, and the Pentagon had considered and even run drills involving "using a jet as a rocket against buildings". I don't have time to verify if that claim is accurate.

The recordings state the commanding officer ordered the F15s out over the Atlantic ocean. It also shows that breaking windows with supersonic flight was a not a restriction, as claimed by the thus debunked Popular Mechanics.

economics runs the show

Yup. It gets interesting around page 7 forward.

@Winter: I hope you will read the "Yup" linked document in my prior comment, to understand it is not as simple as the "USA govt". If you understand who Martin Armstrong is, and you read carefully, I think your view of the world will be permanently altered. This is documented recent history. Who here can claim Armstrong is a kook?

I don't really care if the kerosene caused structural failure or not, I just want it to be proven scientifically.

If you are looking for plausibility that kerosene did not bring down the WTC, I can provide them, but that is not at all my point.

If you want to explore that, I do hope you know that some of the kerosene fell immediately down the elevator shaft, and there was a fire in the basement, with at least one man sustaining severe burns in basement. The explosion must have been severe in the basement, as the witness saw damage (to cars if I remember correctly) there when he saw the burned individual.

Also other steel buildings have been hit planes and burned and not collapsed. Again this is not my point though. I am just calling for the evidence to not be suppressed.

You cannot prove history

Rubbish. Correlation doesn't guarantee cause & effect, but statistically insignificant conclusions are meaningless.

For example, carbon dating isn't statistically accurate in establishing epoch correlations?

I only asked for statistically accurate correlations. Sampling 1% of the structural steel (in the hot zone, thus perhaps 0.01% overall) is worse than sampling none of it. If you don't understand that, then please go back to school.

You want to implicate explosive charges

I never said that. I keep saying I only want to have statistically accurate conclusions. Otherwise, I will conclude that I don't have enough data to conclude. That is science.

If you haven't connected the dots by now, let me be more explicit. Read the "Yup" linked document. I think a scientific investigation might reveal who was funding the effort. I suspect it might also prove the building collapsed due to kerosene. That is irrelevant. I just want to follow the evidence and see where it leads. But there are some powerful elements who don't want us to have the evidence. And I don't think it is because of explosives, rather is for the reasons that are in that linked document.

You want to implicate explosive charges

I didn't write nor imply that.

I want statistically meaningful conclusions. Otherwise, I will conclude that I don’t have enough data to conclude. That is science.

I think a scientific investigation might reveal who was funding the effort, with those in Armstrong's nemesis the "CLUB" as likely candidates, perhaps not directly but as derivative effect. I suspect it might also prove the building collapsed due to kerosene. That is irrelevant. I just want to follow the evidence and see where it leads.

I still do not see why Al Qaida needed help

I suspect the money trail will lead back to the "CLUB", right from the beginning such as funding the Afghan resistance fighters.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3722&cpage=3#comment-323045

Shelby wrote:
The intention of my prior post and this one, is to put an end my blogging.

I have not lied, nor do I intend to imply a top-down conspiracy on 9/11. With hard evidence, the conspiracy theories (speculation) will mute.

The drug war as a front for drug running and the attacks on gun rights, is not a top-down conspiracy, quite the opposite, no one is in control of the Olsen scramble.

dishonest or insane

Provide proof that I knowingly told untruth or my medical records. else you are arguing both for and against speculative assertions.

wrecked your argument ... the WTC1 tennant

No. I want the good science of investigating potentially relevant data, not doing a google search on personality. The relevant data is the alledged 20 years of nearby air force base activity reports.

All of our defense measures were ... from outside the country

Hard data, not hearsay subjective noise.

rampant speculation without evidence

Ditto the official reports, which will remain the case until a statistically significant sample of the structural steel. Occam's Razor doesn't imply the scientific method, which requires the falsifiable hypothesis. We can't falsify lost evidence.

Telling us all witnesses are lying leaves you nowhere

Personal truth is speculation. Statistically significant evidence is science.

The “government” cannot prove it was not involved

To say I am not satisfied with the science, doesn't logically mean that I am implying I am implicating the government. If A not proven, doesn't mean B is implicated. The response of "how could it be possible for any other outcome...yadayada", is irrelevant.

Why do you want so desperately to believe that the American government concocted the 9/11 attacks?

Why do you make a false assumption about what I think?

trust his elders’ unanimous word

You are not my elder. You haven't provided complete government documents about activities and procedures.

Really? Where? Examples, please

You present some hard data first.

The winner of this argument understands technology is growing, and not the elder dinosaurs who clings to what is dying.

former senior executive at the F.A.A., ... on the condition that I not identify him

Hearsay is not admissible in court.

They were working with the Sauds’ enemy

Simplistic and one-dimensional speculation. Data?

Neither of us know. It is likely very complex, with competing interests within the various governments. You play checkers, and I play Spock's multi-level chess.

[Lockerbie] The major damage was in the lost plane

Killed may have included a joint team of CIA, FBI, and govt drug war agents related to the heroin trafficking out of the Bekaa Valley. Tangentially are Gary Webb's forensic expositions on the drug war's connection to drug trafficking.

what reporter ... would hold off on reporting it until it had been ... “vetted”?

Speculation. Investigate.

Would this be evidence of some kind of conspiracy?

Who here said it was.

actual protocol for handing hijackings

Thousands of military protocol documents and activity reports please, including Pentagon protection.

@Milhouse: you are unable to prove I KNOWINGLY stated an untruth. You are making wild speculation, given I simply typo-ed and forgot a single word "core". Many of my comments demonstrated that I often unintentionally omit words. And it doesn't change the statistical point. Here follows the relevant quote.

“only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250˚C [482˚F],” and no evidence that any of the core columns had reached even those temperatures (2005, p. 88).
NIST (2005) says that it “did not generalize these results, since the examined columns represented only 3 percent of the perimeter columns and 1 percent of the core columns from the fire floors”

which implies that the core got even hotter than that

Speculation. Data?

If you accuse the government of a coverup

I have not accused the entire government of anything. Individuals do things. The government is an abstract.

All I want is science. You deploy your political strawmen and false dichotomy illogic, to obfuscate my call for science.

What does that even mean?

You don't know the difference between personal reality and statistical evidence?

@Milhouse: you've lost. Checkmate. Science doesn't make wild assertions, it collects data, then makes models of the statistically significant data. Goodbye.

If I’m not your elder, then you’ve just been caught in another lie

You may be older (I'm 46), but you are not my elder, meaning I disown you as a member of my grouping. It seems the degrees-of-freedom in your mind's logic capacity is limited to duality. Your logical errors are beyond 10 at last count.

eldercomparative of eld·er (Adjective)
1. (of one or more out of a group of related or otherwise associated people) Of a greater age

Killed may also have included a joint team of Martian, Tau Cetian, and Time Lord ambassadors

Haven't seen one data point of them ever boarding an airplane. Have you? Strange you imply that the probabilities are equal to my suggestion that we may not have all the data on who was on board the Lockerbie plane. This is the typical disinformation technique, to equate unequal things and draw attention away from inconvenient truths as follows.

While you obfuscate, you avoid explaining away that 1% of the core beams is not only statistically inconclusive, but is statistical vulnerable to (even unintentional) cherry picking, similar to medical trials that are not sufficiently randomized and thus unscientific.

I suppose you will next stoop to trying to dig up dirt on me personally, as if that somehow removes the non-science of the official reports.

Someone claims Norad, Fema, and the Pentagon had considered and even run drills involving "using a jet as a rocket against buildings". I don't have time to verify if that claim is accurate.

The recordings state the commanding officer ordered the F15s out over the Atlantic ocean. It also shows that breaking windows with supersonic flight was a not a restriction, as claimed by the thus debunked Popular Mechanics.

economics runs the show

Yup. It gets interesting around page 7 forward.

@Winter: I hope you will read the "Yup" linked document in my prior comment, to understand it is not as simple as the "USA govt". If you understand who Martin Armstrong is, and you read carefully, I think your view of the world will be permanently altered. This is documented recent history. Who here can claim Armstrong is a kook?

I don't really care if the kerosene caused structural failure or not, I just want it to be proven scientifically.

If you are looking for plausibility that kerosene did not bring down the WTC, I can provide them, but that is not at all my point.

If you want to explore that, I do hope you know that some of the kerosene fell immediately down the elevator shaft, and there was a fire in the basement, with at least one man sustaining severe burns in basement. The explosion must have been severe in the basement, as the witness saw damage (to cars if I remember correctly) there when he saw the burned individual.

Also other steel buildings have been hit planes and burned and not collapsed. Again this is not my point though. I am just calling for the evidence to not be suppressed.

You cannot prove history

Rubbish. Correlation doesn't guarantee cause & effect, but statistically insignificant conclusions are meaningless.

For example, carbon dating isn't statistically accurate in establishing epoch correlations?

I only asked for statistically accurate correlations. Sampling 1% of the structural steel (in the hot zone, thus perhaps 0.01% overall) is worse than sampling none of it. If you don't understand that, then please go back to school.

You want to implicate explosive charges

I never said that. I keep saying I only want to have statistically accurate conclusions. Otherwise, I will conclude that I don't have enough data to conclude. That is science.

If you haven't connected the dots by now, let me be more explicit. Read the "Yup" linked document. I think a scientific investigation might reveal who was funding the effort. I suspect it might also prove the building collapsed due to kerosene. That is irrelevant. I just want to follow the evidence and see where it leads. But there are some powerful elements who don't want us to have the evidence. And I don't think it is because of explosives, rather is for the reasons that are in that linked document.

You want to implicate explosive charges

I didn't write nor imply that.

I want statistically meaningful conclusions. Otherwise, I will conclude that I don’t have enough data to conclude. That is science.

I think a scientific investigation might reveal who was funding the effort, with those in Armstrong's nemesis the "CLUB" as likely candidates, perhaps not directly but as derivative effect. I suspect it might also prove the building collapsed due to kerosene. That is irrelevant. I just want to follow the evidence and see where it leads.

I still do not see why Al Qaida needed help

I suspect the money trail will lead back to the "CLUB", right from the beginning such as funding the Afghan resistance fighters.

OBL...Al Qaida...

It is difficult to fight ghosts.

That some people could use this destruction for their own good, that was to be expected

Exactly. Now we just need some hard evidence. Where should we start to find it?

Do you have any hard data of who paid for and orchestrated this attacks? If so, please share it with me.

Breaking News! According to Richard Clarke, Chief Counter-Terrorism Advisor in the White House 1998-2002, they probably got their money from the CIA. Apparently there is some evidence to be released in a documentary.

What more do you want

Hard statistically significant evidence lest you make foolish conclusions based on hearsay and fairy tales.

@Greg: CSI effect? Is there a drug cure? I haven't watched TV for 9 years.

Regarding Martin Armstrong, perhaps you didn't read to the end where he explains how certain vested interests denied him habeus for 7 years. So what is that BS about habeus being stronger than ever? The "CLUB" were threatened because he was teaching the Japanese corporations how to not be manipulated by the "CLUB". He explained in great insider detail the reverse takeover of the USA by the "CLUB", which accelerated after 2001.

He used a computer model. The other person who used a computer model to demonstrate corruption was Catherine Austin Fitts, former Asst Sec of HUD under Jack Kemp and insider to Drillon Read on Wallstreet. Do you realize Armstrong is in the high-genius IQ range and Fitts is probably 140+ at least?

“beyond a reasonable doubt”

That means statistically significant.

How can you with any sincerity accuse me of pushing for 100% certainty, wherein in the recent few blogs, I stated numerous times that 100% coverage of any phenomena is impossible, due to entropy. Where I have explained that I first published my theory in 2008, that entropy is the fundamental force, and no one believed me. Yet in late 2009, Erik Velinde proved the same theory, by deriving Newton's law of gravity, F=ma, from the dimensionLESS entropic force, and scientists around the world are embracing the amazing fundamental theory that addresses the inability to reconcile Einstein's Relativity with quantum mechanics, and some have remarked, "why didn't we think of that, it is so obvious".

Now once again, no one here believed my assertions higher on this page, until I provided shocking details, which have shut them up, except a remaining few who are too stupid or lazy to read enough to realize how foolish they are, or Milhouse's case I guess too stubborn or senile to recognize when the facts have him cornered.

Refusing to settle for less

Precisely what "innocent until proven guilty" entails.

Otherwise you have tyranny, which I understand is a concept many people subconsciously subscribe too. That they do so is explained by their desire that man can control his future, insurance, fix-interest rate return on bonds, etc.. Which I already explained in the prior recent blogs, is an entropic dead-end. Oh but I never expect you to be smart enough to assimilate such deeper interrelationships and fundamental theory of universal forces of nature.

In history? Never heard about such a thing

Stratification in ice cores statistically confirming certain relative epochal events. DNA statistics confirming certain migratory patterns. Etc..

That would include every link you posted here on that

I don't have the burden of statistical significance yet, because I am not forming any conclusions yet. I only need to show probable doubt of the statistically inconclusive official mass delusion.

Nevertheless, my source Richard Clarke is an insider who was the top Counter-Terrorism official during 9/11, reporting directly to the President. And now the CIA has threatened to illegally charge the journalists who have figured out the names of the two female CIA agents who Clarke implicates in his assertions, and there is plenty of corroborating evidence that these two women did indeed block the information from reaching the Clarke and FBI. I can't spoon feed every detail to you, you can read (including the sub-links).

@Milhouse: I will refute your ignorance of Armstrong next.

Correction: change "corroborating evidence" to "corroborating hearsay or evidence", because it isn't released yet, only sketched out.

do not really think a high IQ protects against stupidity

Agreed. My point is that before you can form a conclusion on these individuals, you need to spend a few hours reading a lot of their writings, because there is a lot of depth of details that won't be gleaned if you want an elevator summary as you and Milhouse tried to initially do by only focusing on Armstrong's theory of cycles (which btw, he was paid $10,000 per hour and was fully booked around the world, because his computer model was able to sniff out capital flows that presaged market moves).

Armstrong's crime was that he was too successful at helping clients avoid the front-running gyrations in the markets that the CLUB create and profit on. The final straw was apparently when he caused George Soros et al to lose most of the money he had made breaking the bank of England, by foiling the CLUB's plot to devalue the Yen right at the time the Japanese corps do their quarterly forex transactions. He taught them how to hedge these. The CLUB had him confined on a bogus contempt of court charge for 7 years, with numerous judicial procedural unconstitutionalities, etc. He eventually prevailed to the point he is now on house arrest, even though he should be free already, due to the plea bargain he was coerced into making with the Feds. But they still have him tied up in procedural delays, that continue to deny him habeus after nearly 8 years.

The dude was advising Margaret Thatcher, central banks, and other very significant institutions. He was requested by numerous govts to run models, e.g. the USA's DOE asked him to run a model explaining his prediction of $100 oil by 2007, when oil was at $10 in 1990s and everybody thought that prediction was crazy. He has numerous other successful predictions. Read the document I linked for all the details.

He is highly respected, and many wealthy have come to his aid, which is probably the only reason he is alive to tell this story. At one point that had him in solitary confinement and had beat him up so he was going blind. Some congressmen rushed to his aide. He now has 500,000 readers, and it will be a million before end of 2012. His readership may be growing faster than smartphones. He serves no political or religious movement.

He is a student of history and he can recite details from Roman empire forward in the minute details without consulting a reference text.

@Milhouse:
Everybody who has ever heard of him (which is damn few). He is a kook.

Dementia.

I don't care if his PI cycles are worthy since that is not germane to the total body of information on him that applies here (even though institutions around the world pay him to run models), I will note that PI is in the derivation of F=ma from the fundamental dimensionless entropic force of nature.

@Jeff Read:
disprove the incredible story of a single guy on Coast to Coast who is just dang sure that F-15s should have been scrambled

I never said anything about talk show radio.

Did you not listen to the link of the recording I provided? The pilot of the squadron said in real-time that they were out of over the Atlantic, then when asked why, he said the higher commander had scrambled them in that direction. They were then instructed to turn around and break as many windows as necessary to get back to the Pentagon at supersonic speed.

@Jessica Boxer:
Feel free to call me immoral if you like.

It is not an issue of morality. As demonstrated by the recent revelations alleging two women in the CIA were able to stop information from reaching Counter-Terrorism chief Clarke, the so called oversight can fail, and it can be you one day on the waterboard. Armstrong's case is another example. But it is okay, I know this is what societies subconsciously tolerate. We will never stop humans from doing heinous acts of injustice.

My only hope of ending this phenomenon, is my open source technology work which I have already explained in the prior blogs. I want a technical solution, because as evident by comments here, it is impossible to convince people with logic. People only ultimately do (on the statistical aggregate) what the entropy forces them to do. Yeah I realize this comment will fly right over the head of most readers, so be it. My IQ is simply too high for them for ever keep up. It is lonely being 1 in 10,000+.

nice we finally agree on something

Ethically speaking I agree. Entropically speaking, this is natural apparently. Hope we can change it with technology, because I don't expect that to change on logic and widespread IQ.

@SPQR:
Clarke was not “the top Counter-Terrorism official”

Thanks for correcting me about the word "top". I don't think it removes from my point about he meeting the minimum credibility to source as a reasonable doubt to the official story, which is statistically inconclusive anyway.

from early 2001, he reported to Stephen Hadley and Condi Rice of the NSC

And I wonder why that change was made? Was he a little bit too dangerous?

@Milhouse:
Richard Clarke?! He’s whom you consider a credible source? The man who saved bin Laden’s life

BS. He was ordered to do that. That was before 2001, and there were overriding concerns with some in the intelligence community. Can you offer any logic other than repetitive character assassination.

[Armstrong] had full access to habeas. wasn’t ... in secret; ... he was held on the orders of a judge!

And the judge was violating due process, and there massive details, but for example, he was never told what he was held on contempt for. Then the case was vacated, etc... Go read and educated your ignorant self. You are not paying me to continually to this work for you.

That is effectively the same as no habeas, even if you can make some insane technical argument. As I wrote to you before, you change the word imprisonment to internment for the WW2 case, then insanely claim that habeas was not violated.

@Jeff Read:
only man on the planet who ever considered that

As I predicted, you will stoop to attacking me, when you can no longer defeat the logic. So predictable you are.

I never said that even at my website. What I said (and it is a fact), that none of the languages I analyzed have this separation and I gave a technical explanation of the distinction I am referring to. And thus I assume you still don't know what this key distinction is, because it isn't embodied in that general statement of conflation.

@Nigel:
That the bad guys could actually coordinate such an attack was not anticipated.

Apparently you not read the allegations of Richard Clark and the investigative journalism research which claims to have the name of the two women inside the CIA who are responsible. These journalists contacted the CIA as standard journalism ethics require, and now they have been threatened that if they release those names (which were obtained from public information, doing clever Google searches), that they will be charged with a law that is only supposed to apply to government employees. This is apparently an unconstitutional attempt by the CIA to block the landslide of revelations that is coming.

I say within a couple of years at most, no of you official story defenders will have a leg to stand on. This is why Clarke is getting more bold now, because he realizes the journalists have the necessary data to make the allegations stick. Once those names go out, there will be a massive investigative domino effect.

As I said, checkmate to fools who believe in any fairy tale told without science.

And I don't have any more time to debate the people here.

I really need to end this. So if I don't reply, it doesn't mean I can't refute you. If means, you are not paying me enough.

I have made my point already. Anyone reader who is going to get it, can get it from what I have provided.

Thanks to everyone and most especially to this blog owner, for tolerating me to share my side.

I feel I have done all the good work I can do here for now. It is getting repetitive and I really have a greater work to do.

My best to everyone here, including Milhouse.

Greg of course I don't agree with your characterization, but I don't have time to explain it to you. Think what you want.

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty We are not "citizens", we are farm "animal" subjects of a corporation "United States"

Post  Shelby on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:06 am

I first wrote about this on March 29, 2008:

https://goldwetrust.forumotion.com/t48p60-who-really-controls-the-govt-conspiracy-theories-thread#4536

Now I have added to it:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3722&cpage=6#comment-323417

Shelby wrote:
I’m making too subtle for you

No, you are just wrong, as is the current corruption of our constitution and inalienable rights. Perhaps you have a vested interest?

Statutory habeas is not a right but a privilege granted by Congress

The Constitution did not allow a “statutory habeas”, it is implied by the common law because by any sane logic it is clear the Constitution was not referring to a privilege that didn’t already exist.

Constitution says:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No where does it mention the power to create another category of habeas. The 1789 act merely codified the common law habeas. This was corrupted in a series of unconstitutional actions brought on during the time of the Civil war, at which time our constitution died. Due to the 1868 14th amendment, 99.9% of people don’t know they are no longer sovereigns of the original “United States of America” mentioned in the Constitution, but now instead subjects of a federal corporation the “United States” (see USC Title 28, Sec. 3002, Par. 15), instead of sovereigns with inalienable rights. A bit more obscure and sketchy, the definition of drug in the law, says applicable to the health “of humans or any other animal”, legally classifying us as animals, thus dehumanizing us from our inalienable rights that animals don’t have.

Declaration of Independence says:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I forgot I had published an explanation on my theory that we lost the original constitution and became subjects of the federal corporation. I accept that many people view this as insane or kooky, and there are others who agree with me.

Off topic: I know Esr maintains GPS-related open source, so this may be important.

or that Bloomberg reported any such thing, then this would just be more evidence of your insanity

Here is the Bloomberg report.

no moral difference between the USSR and the Third Reich

Milhouse, some people have theorized that neocons would be willing to sacrifice 3000 on 9/11 in order to win the larger battle in the middle east. I am not subscribing to that, because I must see more evidence than mere motive ("New American Century" document). I read now the EU leaders and Soros are saying that EU breakup would result in war (the implication is threat of nuclear war) and thus it is preferable to socialize the losses of the banks by creating an EU treasury so it has the power to tax and can then borrow. This is a pattern of "democracy" that it becomes no different than other form of socialism, in that we privatize the speculative gains of banksters, and socialize their losses. This game has been played on mankind since the beginning.

I can see that you will defend injustices within our system as a cost of avoiding the "moral" alternative which is socialism. But the key thing missing from your understanding, is that what you are fighting for, is no different than socialism, but you can't see that.

I was going to try to teach that you early on, but I figured you would not understand.

===============
ALSO: http://armstrongeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/armstrongeconomics-us-sov-debt-defaults-091711.pdf

At least the Romans had the Tribune who could charge anyone in
government. We had that too. It was the
Office of Inspector General. It was stripped
of all independent powers. It cannot even
investigate any judges, prosecutors, and it
cannot bring criminal charges against
anyone in government. In fact, it is a
subordinate of the Justice Department and
not even an independent branch. We got
the “Tribune” concept in image only. So
much for that check and balance!


Last edited by Shelby on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:27 am; edited 3 times in total

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty only an insane person would say these people are kooks

Post  Shelby on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:27 pm

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3722&cpage=7#comment-323587

Shelby wrote:
2500 licensed structural engineers do not believe in UFOs, Three Little Pigs, Santa Claus, etc.. Are they all kooks?

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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty Collectivism causes economic failure which causes war and megadeath

Post  Shelby on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:38 pm


Shelby
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Who really controls the govt?  (Conspiracy Theories thread) - Page 3 Empty re: De-population and pink underwear (seriously)

Post  Shelby on Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:20 pm

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article17644.html#comment132129

JR, "no growth" is not healthy.

The elite are using every means they can to talk the masses into eugenics in many forms, from birth control, vaccinations, GMO food, etc.

Millions of people die during economic collapse. Study what happened in USSR, Argentina, etc.. Dmitry Orlov experienced it:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2008/02/five-stages-of-collapse.html

China has an unsolvable demographic bankruptcy by 2030 because of their one-child policy.

http://www.google.com/search?q=china+demographic+time+bomb+2030

Much of Europe is demographically bankrupt now (unless they open to ASIAN immigration, not just uneducated from Africa).

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31904.html#comment131972

Children are needed to produce for the elderly. Societies with few children have mental health decline.

For example, I read recently that 20% of the people in the USA (any maybe western world) are on psychiatric medication (anti-depressants, etc). Then we put about 20% of the kids on ADD medication.

This planet can provide the resources for 1 trillion people.

What is lacking is investment, due to the routing (misalloction) of capital to consumption via widespread use of debt and saving in debt (a.k.a. bonds).

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Understand%20Everything%20Fundamentally.html

No growth of population means no growth of the economy. It means decline and decay.

I live in the Philippines on 120 sqm lot in a 40 sqm house, walking distance from the beach. It is much healthier than living in the USA, because here I don't eat any processed food and I get sunshine (vitamen D) year round. Here I see many children, many smiles, natural life. Your image of the third world from what you on Children's International, is designed to make you feel proud of your unhealthy western lifestyle. The elite are in control of your mind via the mass media. I turned off the TV 10+ years ago and haven't watched it since.

There is so much land on this earth, we only use a small fraction. There is no lack of arable land either. Too many lies in the mass media as the elite want to control you. Junk science in the media too:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3974

Do you realize the entire world's oil consumption is equivalent to continuous flow of a medium to smallish size river. Calculate it. I did.

Disclaimer: I think we about getting to the time where it will become dangerous to speak about such heresies against the mainstream indoctrination. Thus the post (but not this disclaimer) is just a joke. Don't believe anything you read in this post, nor any of the cited resources. We must all be good citizens and do alike. Everyone must wear pink underwear, no exceptions:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/14/joe-arpaio-tea-party-americans-for-prosperity_n_1093160.html

Cheers.

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